Am I Qualified?

[nbuch]

Hi Guys,

First post on QuantNet. I am a third year undergrad at the University of Michigan with an expected 3.7 GPA in my relevant Econ/Financial Math courses. I interned at bulge bracket FX sales and trading last summer, and this summer I plan on working at a small quant shop/hedge fund. I will have strong recommendations from the senior foreign exchange researcher at my bulge bracket internship and a high-frequency automated trading researcher at UofM with whom I worked last semester (he is also the head of the Computer Science's graduate admissions). I also own and operate a macro trading blog.

I intend on applying to Berkley, UCLA, UChicago, NYU, Columbia, etc., but I am nervous about the admissions process. I am very set on starting an MFE program right after undergrad, but I am unsure about my acceptance to one of the top programs. Can someone shed some light on how I stand as an applicant? My worst nightmare would be to apply to a dozen programs and not be accepted to any of them come senior year spring.

Nickeleres

 

[AMIRHAMED]

To be sure it depends on the "etc." you wrote. Those programs are highly competitive. It doesn't mean that you are not a good candidate, but there are some more skilled guys with working experience who are better qualified. Try more safer programs, to be sure for admission.
GRE is decisive too, and if you have a good GRE Math, then your chances are higher.

 

[nbuch]

Which programs would I more safely be accept to? Would it be advisable for me to work for a couple of years and then get my MFE? I feel like I want to continue full steam ahead with my academics for the next couple years.

I have read through QuantNet's 2011 top programs list and looked into each of their curriculum; which programs exist other than (below?) those cited in QN's list?

I have exhausted most of my school's advising on the issue and have not gained much from it.

 

[AMIRHAMED]

There are lots of programs out there, you can check some through the Tracker here. The list as described in the methodology is derived based on the different information. Not all programs participated in the ranking.
To find most MFE programs check the Tracker, and to choose the best, check USNews rankings.
As far as I know University of Michigan has such a program, but I suggest to try the programs which are more close to major financial centers. Consider location.

 

[AMIRHAMED]

And about the working experience, I always suggest working over studying. It could be very helpful. Not only for the admission to top programs, but also in succeeding in those programs. It gives you a better eyesight.
Enjoy life, don't rush to finish studying soon.

 

[nbuch]

That is what my parents are telling me, but why should I extinguish my academic zeal? I figure that I will need an advanced degree in a quantitative field at some point. Also, the jobs which I would like to pursue all require said advanced degrees in order to even be considered for an interview. As I see it, the only thing standing between myself and my goal is the academic, quantitative training required at so many shops.

 

[AMIRHAMED]

Many of the student do what you want to do. But working can mature your academic zeal. It totally depends on you.
MFE is a new born field, so there will be many improvements in future to the programs. Also, it is not like Physics or Mathematics. It is something derived from the market, from the working experience. It is not just theory and the theories themselves are somehow experimental.

 

[Ken Abbott]

Go to work. You can't be sure this is really what you want to do until you've tried it. If it is, then you will be even more motivated to get more education and moreover, you'll know why you need it. If not, you'll save yourself a lot time, money, and pain.

 

[bullion]

... third year undergrad at the University of Michigan with an expected 3.7 GPA in my relevant Econ/Financial Math courses. I interned at bulge bracket FX sales and trading last summer, and this summer I plan on working at a small quant shop/hedge fund. I will have strong recommendations from the senior foreign exchange researcher at my bulge bracket internship and a high-frequency automated trading researcher at UofM with whom I worked last semester (he is also the head of the Computer Science's graduate admissions). I also own and operate a macro trading blog.

I intend on applying to Berkley, UCLA, UChicago, NYU, Columbia, etc., ...

Berkeley (avg w/e: 3.44 years)
UCLA (avg w/e: 4 years)
UChicago (not provided, but highly recommended)
NYU (not provided, but a lot of second master)
Columbia (not provided, but receives a lot of applications from oversea)

If you go through current students' profile, a common theme is

foreign > domestic (# of students wise)
second master > first master (typically in statistics/compsci)
FT work experience > no FT work experience (easier to place after graduation + higher salary aka better post-grad statistics)
technical degree > non-technical degree (IT/technology is much easier to place after graduation)

Financial Math has a lot of overlap with the traditional MFE curriculum. Since you've already worked in S&T and will be working on the buy-side as well, admissions will likely question why you're not getting a job directly afterward since you're well-qualified. You can't really say you want to learn derivative pricing either since you've already done it in FM. Also, first master applicants without work experience seem to be subject to much higher class rank/academic award standards (going over current student resumes).

There's also the issue of post-graduation placement. Many MFE students are career changers (or switching academic tracks), so they have a explicit reason to acquire a new skill. If you say you want a job requiring technical training, admissions will evaluate whether they can place you against other applicants/peers with CS degrees. If they can't (since those with CS degrees will still be more qualified in technical roles), then they run the risk of not being able to place you in the job you want aka grumpy alum.

You already possess all the financial math skills recruiters are looking for. So if it is technical skills you lack, CS degrees will prepare you better.

 

[nbuch]

thank you for such a thorough response. i will take all of these things into consideration. if not an MFE, then what would be the best graduate to degree to receive to qualify me for a top-echelon financial engineering job? i believe you said CS, meaning computer science, but i do not want to be the programmer of the team--I want to be designing the quantitative strategies.

 

[Irving Lo]

thank you for such a thorough response. i will take all of these things into consideration. if not an MFE, then what would be the best graduate to degree to receive to qualify me for a top-echelon financial engineering job? i believe you said CS, meaning computer science, but i do not want to be the programmer of the team--I want to be designing the quantitative strategies.

You want to be the f***ing gambler

 

[olgenue]

thank you for such a thorough response. i will take all of these things into consideration. if not an MFE, then what would be the best graduate to degree to receive to qualify me for a top-echelon financial engineering job? i believe you said CS, meaning computer science, but i do not want to be the programmer of the team--I want to be designing the quantitative strategies.

A Master's degree in Operations Research is one such graduate degree you can consider.

 

[AV-Wolverine]

Hey Nicholas, I'm a Michigan Alum from the Engineering school.You have quite a few mathematical finance courses that you could take from undergrad itself and get a job like the people above suggested.

IOE 453 / Math 423 (textbook is Hull's Options and Derivatives) is one among many others, including stochastic processes, Markov chains, etc.. Doing an intro programming course + EECS 280 (C++) and acing those would definitely help too.

There are individuals I knew who got finance roles in NYC right out of undergrad CS, IOE, Maths, and Econ. All the big investment banks do show up and recruit at the Michigan career fairs.

3.7 is pretty solid at Michigan so I definitely think you have some options.

 

[nbuch]

cool, thanks a lot for the responses guys! ....and yes, I do want to be the gambler