Aspiring quantitative financial engineer, looking for advice!

[will tepe]

Ever since I read an article on Investopedia, I have loved the idea of Quantitative Finance.
I have long known of its existence, but it wasn't until that moment that I was able to read specifically about the job, what is required, what they do, ect.
The job itself ties together everything that I enjoy in life, and happen to be pretty good at.

I am currently 17, and a freshman at University of Cincinatti college of business, planning on an MS in investment finance, with Bachelors in Finance, Information Systems (computer science plus business stuff), and Physics. I am also considering a PHD in finance, and possibly swapping out the MS in finance with something math related, or even physics.

I've read about every article I can find about the job, and after all that, I am still relatively clueless. As it is such a niche job, there is nobody currently (that is easy to locate) that I can regularly consult with, or any students that share my interests (that I have met).

As I happen to be fairly good at many aspects of Quant jobs, my long term goal is to one day have my own quant firm (VERY long term). A path towards that would be starting a quant job after college, learning, evolving my programs, and working my way up. As time goes by, I believe technology, as well as myself, will develop to the point that having my own quant firm is a goal within reach. That being said, I would GREATLY appreciate as many opinions and perspectives as possible in regards to how I should be going about college, and how my path should look on the way to achieving my goals.

Several unanswered questions have been stuck on my mind for a while now;

-How important is GPA? I plan on finishing college quite a bit faster than most, and I plan on doing this by focusing my efforts on any and all classes that will be of any use to my future. For example, I currently have As in all my classes that I learn from, and ~Bs in my classes that pretty irrelevant, mostly required freshman level classes. At the end of the day, I will graduate (predicted) with about a 3.1, and I will have a significantly better understanding of the field than the average finance+physics major student. I feel that additional degrees will put my at the top of the list for solid starting positions as well as promotions, and once I'm in, GPA will make little difference.

-Is my degree path decent? Should I make any changes?

-How big of a deal are internships relevant to quant jobs?
I have been perpetually worried about my first internship, as they can be hard to get, and I'm not entirely sure what kind of work will be required. I do not have a plan for internships in the future, however I have set aside time to work between now and graduation. My grandfather owns a small company that designs supply intelligence and logistics software, and I could definitely work there, but I feel it would lack in the math+finance aspects of the job.
Does that matter?
What would be the best internship I could pursue, the most efficient, and the bare minimum?
How worried should I be about an internship compared to learning the field from school?

Bonus question- should I try and hold ~3. 7 until I get an internship, then refocus my efforts towards learning compared to GPA?

Lastly, seeing as this career path is pretty uncommon, I have NOBODY to consult with (besides this forum site I just found).
If you are looking for a mentee, friend, or just someone to talk about stocks with;
Cell- 859-905-9372
Snapchat- Teperson-w

If you read up to here, your advice would be valuable to me. I appreciate you as a human using your time to help people via forums.

 

[IntoDarkness]

1. your college blows - zero brand name and zero recruiting
2. your major blows - quant is about math + computer science with finance as after thought
3. the typical undergrad finance curriculum, which is not quant, can be summarized into a cfa level 1 exam which takes regular people about 3 months to prepare while working full-time
4. gpa is extremely important for undergrad recruiting especially for people from joe blow university like op
5. gpa is extremely important for grad school admission especially for people from joe blow university like op
6. you should try to hold a gpa about 4.0 not 3.7 until you graduate

bonus point: why do you think you can get a quant job with the path/plan you described while seas of gpa 4.0 stem students from ivy league, mit, berkeley, caltech available for pick

 

[will tepe]

1. your college blows - zero brand name and zero recruiting
2. your major blows - quant is about math + computer science with finance as after thought
3. the typical undergrad finance curriculum, which is not quant, can be summarized into a cfa level 1 exam which takes regular people about 3 months to prepare while working full-time
4. gpa is extremely important for undergrad recruiting especially for people from joe blow university like op
5. gpa is extremely important for grad school admission especially for people from joe blow university like op
6. you should try to hold a gpa about 4.0 not 3.7 until you graduate

bonus point: why do you think you can get a quant job with the path/plan you described while seas of gpa 4.0 stem students from ivy league, mit, berkeley, caltech available for pick

I sincerely appreciate the feedback, i'm very glad i thought about this early on.
As for my choice of college, its essentially my only option due to my location. I feel as though my best bet would be to tailor my resume and degrees to the best of my ability.
Based on your expertise, i think pursuing a PhD in some form of math with a masters in IS (computer science), and a finance undergrad would give me decent odds.
I'm no genius, i just love the job material. I could probably manage a 3.5-3.8 at my best, if i'm being honest.

What sort of combination of degrees could make me stand out the most against ivy universities?
Would CQF+CFA help at all?

Lastly and probably most important;
If i really am at that much of a disadvantage, should i cut my losses while i'm still a freshman and look for a similar but less competitive job?

Thanks again,
Will

 

[IntoDarkness]

op should pretty much forget about it
unless op can transfer to a much better college (e.g. penn cas College of Arts & Sciences | Transfer - Penn Admissions) no later than junior year studying some quant subject (e.g. math The Mathematics Major | Department of Mathematics)
certificates are mostly useless

 

[David.G]

Here's my warning after seeing so many young people (my cohort) getting caught in the same trap. Do not assume that what you think you want to do now will be true after the first year of college/university.

The amount of people I know with the attitudes "I'm going to be a BA/FA/accountant etc..." usually end up with degree's and qualifications they hate because they never looked outside of their own narrow vision of what there is to do with life.

Just some advise, I always tell young students to take something from everything, heck I didn't think I'd have a masters (on full scholarship) and PhD potentials with nobel prize winners in the subject field I have - and now I build AI/ML/DL solutions which doesn't even get taught in my field of study.

 

[pingu]

...
the typical undergrad finance curriculum, which is not quant, can be summarized into a cfa level 1 exam which takes regular people about 3 months to prepare while working full-time
...

correction, it can be summarized into half of CFA Level 1 exam.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Whatever you do, do not go for a PhD in Math. Realistically, you can try to get an internship and get some work experience first.

 

[will tepe]

I appreciate all of the feedback from everyone!
This may be a bit off topic from my original questions, but i feel as though you all have much more valuable opinions and experience than most other people i have the ability to talk to.

Ive had my share of self made success so far in life, about 120,000 in stocks with about 60% being profits, before the age of 18.
Additionally, i am in the process of developing a few small-scale tangible product based business ventures, that are on their way towards success.

With the particular skill sets of investment knowledge, mathematics, entrepreneurship, and some computer science, what sort of jobs and salaries are possible?
I have always been interested in developing markets. I constantly think about what might/could/will be different in 50 years and generate entrepreneurial ideas accordingly

Of course being a quant is very appealing, but i feel like my time would be better spent pursing something with better odds.

The core of what i want to know, what could i do with my skills? How should i be spending my time now? (reading, more classes, work experience, business ventures, ?)
Anything i should make sure to avoid/accomplish in the coming years?
Any life advice that any of you got from experience?

Again, thanks for the support.
Will

 

[Ken Abbott]

1. your college blows - zero brand name and zero recruiting
2. your major blows - quant is about math + computer science with finance as after thought

bonus point: why do you think you can get a quant job with the path/plan you described while seas of gpa 4.0 stem students from ivy league, mit, berkeley, caltech available for pick

I have been in the business for over three decades and have worked at several bulge-bracket firms. I have hired dozen of quants - junior and senior. Many have come from "brand-name" schools and have studied math and/or CS. Most have not. I have had many more people come from state colleges and private colleges with local reputations. I have seen music majors, econ majors, history majors, and business majors succeed.

To be sure, a big-name school helps, but it is by no means required. Being a target school gives access to the process. Plenty of people come in the side door. Networking is key.

 

[will tepe]

I have been in the business for over three decades and have worked at several bulge-bracket firms. I have hired dozen of quants - junior and senior. Many have come from "brand-name" schools and have studied math and/or CS. Most have not. I have had many more people come from state colleges and private colleges with local reputations. I have seen music majors, econ majors, history majors, and business majors succeed.

To be sure, a big-name school helps, but it is by no means required. Being a target school gives access to the process. Plenty of people come in the side door. Networking is key.

I enjoyed reading your response. All the articles i have read confirm the employment style you describe, employers mostly care about ability rather than background. And networking of course. However, i have heard plenty of arguments both sides (many of which in the past few days), and to sum it up i'm basically at a crossroads.

I do see a lot of points in Intodarness's points. Competing with ivy league financial engineers would be tough, and probably put me low on the list for promotions/salary/responsibility.

I think what relates your two comments and makes yours possibly more relaible, is i cant imagine there are nearly enough 4.0 ivy league grads to fill all, if even a majority of quant job positions. This is why i believed i could swing it with my plan described earlier.

Based on your professional experience, do ivy league grads dominate side entrants at work?
in terms of hiring preferences, salary, how they are treated, or even the work they are given.

And in your opinion, do you see many new quant jobs opening up over the next few years? Any development or evolution of the job itself or the way it is done?
Do you think (if you believe the job will only grow) that job openings will grow faster than the amount applying?

Happy to hear from you,
Will

 

[BlackMamba]

1. the typical undergrad finance curriculum, which is not quant, can be summarized into a cfa level 1 exam which takes regular people about 3 months to prepare while working full-time

Agreed on undergraduate finance curriculum being covered in the CFA Level 1 exam, not agreed on the 3 months to prepare. If you have no formal academic/professional background in finance, and you want to go into the exam with a high degree of confidence that you'll pass, the average candidate will face 6 months/~350 hours of prep time. It's a lot of material.

 

[Ken Abbott]

Based on your professional experience, do ivy league grads dominate side entrants at work?
in terms of hiring preferences, salary, how they are treated, or even the work they are given.

And in your opinion, do you see many new quant jobs opening up over the next few years? Any development or evolution of the job itself or the way it is done?
Do you think (if you believe the job will only grow) that job openings will grow faster than the amount applying?

They do have an advantage. My experience suggests two areas where this is so. First, the students at these generally more aware of what’s happening in the job market for these positions. This is attributable to the fact that many companies have a presence on campus and to the generally better networking opportunities they have. Second, they will often get the benefit of the doubt from recruiters. That means that little things (typos, interview presence, etc.) might be overlooked because the interviewer maintains a prior (rightly or wrongly) that these candidates are generally better. In my experience, the best of these “non brand-name” students are as good as anyone.

Regulation-driven jobs in risk management and model validation will continue to expand in my opinion. The market, however, is saturated. There used to be only a few quant finance programs. Now there are hundreds. When I want to grad school in the 90s there were no masters programs in quant finance beyond the quant tracks at Wharton and Chicago. That’s why I chose stats, which ended up being a good call.

Get good grades.

Learn about the jobs and the companies.

Network.

 

[mhy]

I've read about every article I can find about the job, and after all that, I am still relatively clueless.

As I happen to be fairly good at many aspects of Quant jobs

Huh?

-How important is GPA?

Important, in the sense that many firms won't even consider you if you are below a 3.5 or 3.3 (cutoff varies by firm). Plus there is plenty of competition with 3.7, 3.8, 3.9+ GPAs.

-Is my degree path decent? Should I make any changes?

Finance and information systems are not technical enough majors. As another poster said, math and computer science are your best bets for undergrad.

How big of a deal are internships relevant to quant jobs?

A big deal if it is a structured internship program where interns get full-time offers. Many firms hire entry-level exclusively through intern conversions.

Stop worrying and focus on what you really want to do, enjoy your first year in college, and take a variety of different classes to get a feel for what you want to major in. I went into college as a music and psychology major and eventually found computer science and math were what I wanted to do (though I ended up completing a music degree). College is totally different from high school.