COMPARE Baruch MFE vs NYU MathFin

[Laura]

Hi all,
I got admitted to a few programs and my two top choices are: Baruch MFE and NYU MathFin. I have not finalized my decision yet. I have done some research to compare the 2 programs in term of: Curriculum, Instructor Profiles, Job & Internship Placement, Tuition Fee, and Student Feedbacks.

Curriculum: Both programs have very good curriculum. Both are rigorous and practical, cover both buy side and sell side courses. Currently, I kind of prefer NYU MathFin curriculum as I can find more info online (past year course notes, syllabus, homework, projects etc) .

Instructor Profiles: Both programs are taught by great full-time professors and famous practitioners.

Job & Internship Placement: Undoubtedly, Baruch has great job & internship placement. There is no placement information on NYU website. If any QuantNet member has NYU placement info, would you mind to share it? I am going to write an email to the NYU program administrator, asking for their placement info today. Job placement is very important to me.

Tuition fee: $32,040 for Baruch and $49,752 for NYU. According to my projection if I continue working full-time until end of July, I can save from 52,000 USD to 56,000 USD, which is just nice if I take Baruch Program. If I take NYU, my saving is definitely shortage. I might have to take a loan, which I have not found out details on its cost.

Student Feedbacks: both are good. I really like feedbacks about Baruch program which has great academic environment, where fellow students work closely together, professors are very caring etc..

My main concern here is the comparison of the job & internship placements of both programs. Financing is obviously a concern but I will try to figure that out.

Here is my background:
I'm Vietnamese, graduated with Bachelor in Quantitative Finance, from Singapore. I have worked for nearly 2 years in Fixed Income IT for an Investment Bank in Singapore.

I will fund my master education using my own saving. I aim to work for a few years (5, 6 years) in US after graduate and consider coming back to Asia ultimately. However, there might be a possibility that I need to come back to Asia (Singapore) immediately due to certain family commitment (e.g. for taking care of my parents back in Vietnam etc...). I wish to work in research & development in Front Office for Algorithmic Trading, Quantitative Investment or Portfolio Management. Frankly speaking, I have not done any research on whether there is such kind of job in Singapore.

I would really appreciate any advice from QuantNet. Thank you in advance.
PS: I found a thread on Global Derivative about this topic but it was posted 3 year ago.

Laura.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Talk to Paul Mithouard and snipez
They are both current NYU students and good guys to ask about their program.
You can find many current Baruch students here. Just talk to anyone of them.

There are many, many current students and alumni from numerous programs among our active membership here. Some are posting, others are lurking but most are more than willing to share their advice if you contact them. Use the Tracker to find who are in which program.

 

[jackcoke]

Congrats again Laura, great choices to have!

Bear in mind that if you are open to working in Singapore after graduation and can obtain a PR, you can apply for the FSP scholarship here: http://www.mas.gov.sg/fin_development/Finance_Scholarship_Programme.html

Straining finances can be a huge headache you don't want to have on top of the heavy coursework and the stress of job hunting.

 

[gradaplicant]

If it helps I was just last night reading up on what schools are considered "Target Schools" by Wall Street firms.
On most lists I could see NYU as being a target school, while Baruch was in most cases not mentioned.
I don't know how relevant this is since the Baruch name seems to be well known among New York firms (and that the list might be aimed towards the MBA side, rather then the Quant side), but having the NYU name on your CV will surely help.

I would also consider that when you go back home, you want your degree to be valued just as much as it is in the USA. Is Baruch a well known name among investment banks in Singapore? NYU is a name that's known everywhere in the world as being a top University.

 

[dillshau]

I am currently deliberating between the same 2 schools. My background is different though as I am going to be starting as a part-time student. I work as a developer in a hedge fund in NY.

As a part-time student, I feel that Baruch is better in every respect except potentially brand name. Which unfortunately is quite important. Some things that make me uneasy about NYU are;

1. For PT students you get zero career support. I know the arguments for and against this. I still don't like it.
2. I THINK they're main programming language is Java (I know Matlab etc also). Take a look on efinancial careers and compare the number of jobs requiring C++ versus Java.
3. I've also read that they are not great at helping students digest the material taught (Not much help from TA's etc...). You are delivered the material and you are on your own to understand it.

All that being said, when I speak to senior quants/traders at work and in other banks/HF's, when they hear the name "Courant", they get excited and usually respond with something like "I hear Baruch is actually a very good program and getting better but Courant... they are top notch".

It's a tough position to be in as I know that for me anyway, Baruch is a better choice. But it's very difficult to ignore the very people that I would be interviewing with in 2/3 years time. I'm sure that if they did a lot of research like us potential students do, they're opinions would change but that's just not going to happen.

 

[Ken Abbott]

3. I've also read that they are not great at helping students digest the material taught (Not much help from TA's etc...). You are delivered the material and you are on your own to understand it.

dillshau, that's not a good way to judge a grad school program. As an undergrad, you generally understand about 90% of the material as it is taught. Grad school is different is more like the real world. The instructor introduces the material and provides resources. It's up to you to digest it.

I teach at both programs. If you want to discuss the differences, contact me.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Not sure if you have done this already but visit both programs, sit in one of their classes, talks to the current students, the professors, the staff to get a feel of the people there.
I'm sure you will walk away having a better feel of each program. There is no excuse for not doing this if you are in NYC.

 

[Ken Abbott]

dillshau, come to my class tomorrow night @710pm at NYU if you want to. You could also sit in on a similar class at Baruch on Wednesday @ 7pm.

 

[Joy Pathak]

I think Baruch has the best return on investment out of all the MFE programs...

 

[todaikei]

I think Baruch has the best return on investment out of all the MFE programs...

why?

 

[dillshau]

dillshau, come to my class tomorrow night @710pm at NYU if you want to. You could also sit in on a similar class at Baruch on Wednesday @ 7pm.

Thank you Ken, that would be great. Could you send me the classroom details?

 

[darth]

why?

'coz joy studies there :P

 

[Joy Pathak]

why?

I graduated in December and the returns I have already seen (salary/bonus/knowledge compared to peers) on my investment (tuition/etc) have been enourmous IMO.

 

[kathy s.]

I don't think you have to worry about the international recognition of Baruch's MFE program. Check out the results from the 2012 Rotman International Trading Competition (RITC) in Toronto. Two Baruch teams, comprised of students in the MFE Program, took both 1st AND 4th places, beating out MIT, Duke, Boston, Columbia, etc... http://mfe.baruch.cuny.edu/the-baru...otman-international-trading-competition-ritc/

 

[todaikei]

I don't think you have to worry about the international recognition of Baruch's MFE program. Check out the results from the 2012 Rotman International Trading Competition (RITC) in Toronto. Two Baruch teams, comprised of students in the MFE Program, took both 1st AND 4th places, beating out MIT, Duke, Boston, Columbia, etc... http://mfe.baruch.cuny.edu/the-baru...otman-international-trading-competition-ritc/

are you saying Baruch's MFE program is getting internationally recognized because they took 1st and 4th places at RITC?? wow please be kidding.. building a school's reputation worldwide isn't that simple

 

[Yike Lu]

are you saying Baruch's MFE program is getting internationally recognized because they took 1st and 4th places at RITC?? wow please be kidding.. building a school's reputation worldwide isn't that simple

I donno, one Irish school and for sure one Italian school will be remembering us

You are right though of course, haha.

 

[Laura]

Thank you for all of your opinions.

I have asked for internship & job placement statistics info for the past 3 years from NYU Math Fin Administrator, including details on:
1. Internship Placement Rate
2. Job Placement Rate
3. The high, low, average of first year compensation
4. Employment Facts and Figures including details of employers, job locations and job functions

(Unfortunately), she came back with a general reply , without much details, for example "our track record is excellent" etc..

Below are some details of Batch 2011 which I get from some email from NYU program. I think it would be fine to share them here.

"Last summer all but one of our second-semester students found summer internships; the list of employers included Alliance Bernstein, Barclays Capital,BNP Paribas, Chicago Trading Company, Citigroup, DE Shaw, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Societe Generale, and UBS.
Turning to long-term placement: 28 of the 36 students who graduated in December 2011 started full-time jobs within three months of graduation; the list of employers is similar to the one given above for internships. A few graduates have returned to their home countries or chosen to pursue other career paths. The rest are actively interviewing, and we expect them to find something soon."

I have talked to a few junior quants, traders (rate, algo FX, exotic derivatives) in Singapore and Hong Kong from the bank I'm working. Sadly, none of them heard of Baruch MFE program, except one quant guy who did Master Degree in Baruch Applied Maths. I will try to contact more senior people and alumni & current students from both programs to check further.

Both programs are great. The only concern is that NYU might have better brand name in Asia. Given said that, Baruch MFE is a great program with really great job placement and competitive tuition cost.

 

[kathy s.]

NYU might always be more well-known internationally. It has about 30x the operating budget of Baruch so that would probably be the case even if they weren't trying. That said, Baruch is aggressively expanding its international presence and I think you will start to see the results of that rapidly over the next few years. They already have many partnerships with universities in Canada & Mexico, South America, Europe, the Middle East and Asia.

I think you're right to talk to more senior people, and those in recruiting. They'll be more educated about international programs. Within Asia, I know that Baruch has partnerships in at least Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taipei. The Taipei rep actually has their own website. I don't know how helpful it is for your purposes, but you might be able to get a better sense of the regional reputation from it at least. www.baruchasia.org. These folks might be helpful, too: www.facebook.com/cuny.baruchasia.

Best of luck!

 

[JDawg]

NYU no question. People on here like to pretend like pedigree doesn't matter, but it does, especially in Asia (or anywhere else outside the U.S. for that matter). Baruch has a great MFE program, but NYU will give you more opportunities because most people outside of New York have never heard of Baruch. Also if for some reason you decide that being a quant is no longer your destiny, you'll be in a much better position with a degree and alumni network from NYU.

Don't forget that this site is run by a Baruch alumni so there's going to be a lot of bias here. Talk to students/alumni of both NYU and Baruch if you're still unsure (seems like that's what you've been doing).

 

[Yike Lu]

That said, Baruch is aggressively expanding its international presence and I think you will start to see the results of that rapidly over the next few years. They already have many partnerships with universities in Canada & Mexico, South America, Europe, the Middle East and Asia.

I'm a Baruch MFE alum, I have not heard a word about these partnerships, so it's safe to assume that this is for the school at-large rather than MFE program. I would not base any decision on the existence of these partnerships, so the point about Asia job placement being harder stands.