Career switch, comments pls!

[chervelle]

Hello everyone!

Just found this terrific site by accident. I'm currently in the midst of a career switch into the banking sector and hope to gather information of the work-life environment in banks. Btw I'm from Singapore and I was in the IT(SAP) industry. In my previous job, I found that it was rather stressful and had no work-life balance. I like challenges and working hard, but I hate bringing work back home and I want my weekends free of work. I believe that I excel better in a moderately stressed environment. No stress makes me bored, but long highly stressful hours make me unproductive. In short, I think IT is not suitable for me in the long run.

The lifestyle of some of my banking friends in middle and back office really impressed me. They seemed to have lesser stress, rather fixed working hours (no more than 10hours a day) and receive much more pay than I do. Also, finance jobs seemed more challenging, exciting and fulfilling than IT jobs.

So why am I considering a MFE? Well, I remembered my favorite subject in my secondary school days was Maths. MFE, after all, still make use of some IT skills. MBA is out of my choice as I do not have much working experience. So, hopefully by doing a MFE and maybe concurrently with a CFA level 1 would help me break into the banking industry.

I would appreciate some insights on the stress level of different job roles in the bank. Roles that are highly stressful are big no no to me. I've often heard of the terrible working conditions in front office despite the huge pay checks. So in your opinion, what are some of the job roles, which are not so stressful, that a MFE graduate could get?

 

[Yuriy]

Interesting question.

I was under the impression that finance is more stressful than IT, in general.

In finance, the most interesting and challenging positions are those where you get to develop something that makes money, and that is very stressful because if you are wrong, then the company might lose millions of dollars.

There are thousands of no stress jobs in finance industry. You don't even have to switch careers , just join the IT department of a bank; there will be some stress but nothing compared to money making positions.

Also, your friends might be working in banking, but their positions may not be directly related to finance. A database programmer is a database programmer regardless of where he or she works. I would say, your friends have less stress not because of finance but because of types of jobs they have.

If you want to switch to finance because you think it is less stressful, you might want to take a closer look at the "real finance jobs" before you make your final decision.

 

[chervelle]

Well, I don't want to comment on which industry is more stressful....
Stress may be different to different people. Some find certain tasks stressful, but others may find it to be alright. Company and department culture plays a part as well.

Those people I come across are middle office fixed income analyst, product controller, back office settlements and one MFE graduate who worked as a quantitative analyst. They work in European banks and they really kept to the 10 hours 5days work. True, their main stress is with handling money. Other than that, they agreed that their job is not very stressful and it is more exciting than those in the IT department.

So, I believe there must be other finance roles which are both challenging and have work-life balance. I really want to delicate and balance my time with other areas of life. Stress is fine for me, but not long hours of commitment.

So which roles do u think are the most stressful, moderately stressful and least stressful?
and why?

 

[alain]

Well, I don't want to comment on which industry is more stressful....
Stress may be different to different people. Some find certain tasks stressful, but others may find it to be alright. Company and department culture plays a part as well.

This is 100% true...except when your neck is on the line.

Those people I come across are middle office fixed income analyst, product controller, back office settlements and one MFE graduate who worked as a quantitative analyst. They work in European banks and they really kept to the 10 hours 5days work. True, their main stress is with handling money. Other than that, they agreed that their job is not very stressful and it is more exciting than those in the IT department.

European banks are less stressful than the american counterpart. Even more so if they are outside of US.... they also pay less than the US part.

So, I believe there must be other finance roles which are both challenging and have work-life balance. I really want to delicate and balance my time with other areas of life. Stress is fine for me, but not long hours of commitment.

Challenge and work-life balance are inversely proportional. Also, challenge, stress and money are directly proportional in most cases... draw your own conclusion.

 

[chervelle]

First, decide which lifestyle you want. Then decide where and which career you want because positions like that may exists in Singapore or Europe but not in NYC and London.

I have decided on the lifestyle I want - a balanced lifestyle. Work hard and delicate 100% during office hours, leave the office with all the work related worries behind and commit the rest of the time to other meaningful things. So, I hope to be able to match the right kind of job to my personality and the lifestyle I wanted.

Andy, I saw your post that you had a number of career switches before. So, why do you make those switches?

Another question: What kind of middle office roles can a MFE candidate end up with?

Actually I'm a little confused over the differences of front, middle and back office. Roles such as quantitative analyst (should be back office?), quantitative research, risk analyst and derivative structurer. Which office do they fall into?
Sorry if this sounds silly to you

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Andy, I saw your post that you had a number of career switches before. So, why do you make those switches?

Can't see myself doing that for the next 5 years, let alone the rest of my career.

Another question: What kind of middle office roles can a MFE candidate end up with?

Mostly in risk management

Actually I'm a little confused over the differences of front, middle and back office. Roles such as quantitative analyst (should be back office?), quantitative research, risk analyst and derivative structurer. Which office do they fall into?
Sorry if this sounds silly to you

In banking the back office is the heavyweight IT processing systems that handle position keeping, clearance, and settlement. In investment firms, the back office is the administrative functions that support the trading of securities, including recordkeeping, trade confirmation, trade settlement, and regulatory compliance. If used in sales, the back office fulfills customers’ orders and may usually perform the duties involved in customer support call centers.
Sometimes back offices may be somewhere other than the main headquarters of a company. Much of the time they are in suburban areas with cheaper rent, or these functions are outsourced to contractors in other countries. This global back office is referred to as cross-border business-process outsourcing.
The term comes from the building layout of early companies where the front office would contain the sales and other customer-facing staff and the back office would be those manufacturing or developing the products or involved in administration but without being seen by customers. Although the operations of a back office are usually not thought of, they are a major contributor to a business

The middle office is the group of employees in a financial services company that manages risk, calculates profits and losses, and (generally) is in charge of information technology. The middle office draws on the resources of both the front office (sales personnel and corporate finance) and the back office (administration and support).

In Business, front office refers to Sales and Marketing divisions of a company. It may also refer to other divisions in a company that involves interactions with customers. In Financial Markets, front office refers to liquidity management and active trading.

Gotta love wikipedia

 

[chervelle]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I went to a seminar on applied finance and the director of the masters program explained the differences in MFE and MAF. He said that MFE is meant for back office jobs and their MAF is targeting middle office. MFE is very technical, mathematical, specialized and only focuses on limited aspect of finance. On the other hand, their MAF covers a very wide range of banking and finance, and their students have high percentage of passing CFA exams.
Overview

So do roles like quantitative analyst, quantitative research, risk analyst and derivative structurer fall under back office?

 

[kean]

You must be joking. Quant Analyst, Market Risk ...I mean quant team is from the front office.

Back office is for operation and trade processing as far as I know.

Are you sure you get the correct information. Anyway CFA is a good qualification.

 

[chervelle]

Yes, the Director said in the FAQ session that MFE is for back office, their MAF is for middle office.

You must be joking. Quant Analyst, Market Risk ...I mean quant team is from the front office.

Back office is for operation and trade processing as far as I know.

Are you sure you get the correct information. Anyway CFA is a good qualification.

 

[chervelle]

Oh yes, I remembered some posts in another forum mentioned that it is popular for front office in America to recruit MFEs. However, MFEs usually go into middle or back office outside of America....

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Yes, the Director said in the FAQ session that MFE is for back office, their MAF is for middle office.

The program does not have anything that prepares students for front office ?

Oh yes, I remembered some posts in another forum mentioned that it is popular for front office in America to recruit MFEs. However, MFEs usually go into middle or back office outside of America....

That must be it. Otherwise, it would be the most interesting comment from a director of a program. This may also go to show the popularity of MFE programs in the US. Programs in Singapore, NZ, Australia probably attract more regional students.

 

[Yuriy]

In that case, I'm wondering, who gets to work in Front Office in Singapore.

 

[Yuriy]

I ckecked the link for the AF program. For the most part, it corresponds to a Masters in Finance program in the US. For example, Baruch has an MSF program where they study Corporate Finance, Investment Analysis, Options, International Finance, Fixed Income, Entrepreneurial Finance, and many other areas. In MFE, we don't study managerial aspects of finance, mostly quantitative.

 

[kean]

Hello

Master of Applied Finance may be able to lead you to the trading floor but not the quant or algorithmic trading. The last two needs heavy maths. Most of all, they love to hire Phd in maths.

Middle office is full of business analyst or research analyst.

Back office - you may even find some high school rats in there. You can find out from Singapore New Straits Time employment section.

Are you trying to spark a debate here? Don't please. The people here is kind enough to share info.

Front office - Top MBA, MFE, Phd...daaaa!

Oh yes, I remembered some posts in another forum mentioned that it is popular for front office in America to recruit MFEs. However, MFEs usually go into middle or back office outside of America....

 

[chervelle]

Are you trying to spark a debate here?

No, I'm only trying to clarify what I know

 

[DominiConnor]

I have to say that someone who has done no maths since being a teenage is going to find it very hard.
Also, SAP is pretty much the least useful IT skill for quant finance, we have precisely one former SAP person on our database, and he gets by since he isa master of C++.

 

[chervelle]

Hi,
Thanks for sharing. not sure if Cambridge GCE O level A and E maths, and maths at diploma level is sufficient. Anyway, that was more than 5yrs ago although maths was my favorite and strongest subject.
Agree that SAP knowledge won't be useful.
Maths and C++ are not my main concern. Just have to refresh my memory on them.
My concern is whether I will enjoy doing a finance job...

I have to say that someone who has done no maths since being a teenage is going to find it very hard.
Also, SAP is pretty much the least useful IT skill for quant finance, we have precisely one former SAP person on our database, and he gets by since he isa master of C++.

 

[writankar]

hi guys,
firstly, thanx a ton for coming up with this thread. i am an EEE turned software developer from india. have been coding in java & related technologies for the last 3 years.
i am proficient in java/C++! in this capacity if i go in for a MFE program...will i be able to leverage on my sofwtare work ex? what will be the ideal roles i can look for with this background of mine? looking forward to hearing from you, guys!

writankar

 

[DominiConnor]

The maths from your EEE background will be useful, and Java is close enough to C++ that it will help you get up to speed. Java is surprisingly rare in quant finance, though more common in generic housekeeping IT.
Having better C++ will help a lot.

 

[DinoII]

Hi

I have to say that someone who has done no maths since being a teenage is going to find it very hard.

Did you mean math on the job or math while in an MFE program? I have a BSEE (India) from eons ago, have about 10 years of C++ work experience, and also a CFA.

- Is this a reasonable profile to begin an MFE program?
- How do these two schools rate from placement perspective - NC State, Columbia?

BTW, I am 40+ and I think I will work till about 85. That leaves only about 40 more years for getting the ROI. But that's just my view, and I don't know if the schools/recruiters buy this

Thanks
-d