Career switch from Engineering to Quantitative Finance

[quantfin]

Hi All,

I recently joined the forum and am very pleased to be a part of this wonderful society.

I am currently pursuing an MBA in Finance from a well-known part-time program in Bay Area, California and have about eight years of software development experience in the Semiconductor industry. I am a BA in Computer Science.

I want to be a quant by profession but do not have any professional experience in the Finance domain. I had a couple of questions regarding my career switch:


1. Does a CFA help in the Quantitative Finance field? Do I have to get a CFA over and above my MBA in Finance? How will it add value?

2. Are there any companies(eg. banks) , particularly in the Bay Area, looking for Engineering people who want to transition over to Finance? When should I approach those companies, now or after my MBA (hope to wrap up my studies by 2009)

3. Is an MFE degree a must to break into this field? How do I leverage my Computer Science skills to create a good value proposition to employers?

4. How much weightage do employers give to relevant coursework? Are they looking for something else?

Thanks a lot for answering my questions.

 

[woody]

2. Are there any companies(eg. banks) , particularly in the Bay Area, looking for Engineering people who want to transition over to Finance? When should I approach those companies, now or after my MBA (hope to wrap up my studies by 2009)

I don't know any companies in the Bay Area, but some HR people are nice enough to meet with you for an information session, or give you advice over the phone. I'd start looking through the classifieds and calling those HR people to ask "what are you looking for..." Can't hurt.

3. Is an MFE degree a must to break into this field? How do I leverage my Computer Science skills to create a good value proposition to employers?

Seems that most places I've heard about are asking for MFE (or similar) degree or a PHD in Math.

I have a friend who switched from prgramming to FE ten years ago. He did not get a new degree. He started at the bottom (and was much older than his peers at that time). Now he works in structured finance and is doing pretty well.

With a degree and some work experience, you can skip the 'starting at the bottom' part and it will make up for the lack of experience in Finance.

Do you want to switch from MBA to MFE? Or go for MFE after you are finished with MBA?

 

[quantfin]

Thanks, Woody, for the answers. An MFE is a full-time program and it is difficult for me to leave my job. I think I will just go with the MBA. I wanted to know the companies I can target with the MBA degree. Unless of course an MFE is a must to break into this field.

 

[FloPer]

Thanks, Woody, for the answers. An MFE is a full-time program and it is difficult for me to leave my job. I think I will just go with the MBA. I wanted to know the companies I can target with the MBA degree. Unless of course an MFE is a must to break into this field.

Hi,

I agree with Woody. To move into a quant role you have a far better chance with a PhD or something heavily maths orientated rather than an MBA (which regardless of the amount of maths you do tend to be regarded as a management qualification rather than a technical one).

Having said that it depends on what you really mean by quant (ie developing pricing models, having some sort of exposure to pricing models, working on risk models, looking at a business role with some quant exposure and so on).

In case you are wondering where I get my inght from I am a headhunter and have been working in the quant space for the last 5 years. I used to recruit at junior level but am now focusing on more senior postions up to MD level. Even though you might be too junior for me, I am happy to asnwer questions and help any way I can.

Feel free to shoot if you have any more questions.

Hope this helps

Florence

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I am a headhunter and have been working in the quant space for the last 5 years. I used to recruit at junior level but am now focusing on more senior postions up to MD level. Even though you might be too junior for me, I am happy to asnwer questions and help any way I can.

Hi Florence,
Glad to see you here. I'm Andy - the admin of this site.

Are you recruiting for the City only or for clients in NYC as well ? If the former, it's probably a bit of a tough sell since most of the MFE students and members here are NYC based.

How is the market in the City right now ? From my own experience, the job scene here in NYC is really hot this year. Most of our students got no problem obtaining internship, jobs specially in structured finance space.

Everywhere I look, people are hiring, specially in the CDO space. From rating agencies (Moodys, S&P, Fitch) to hedge funds, IB, they are expanding at a breakneck pace.

I know you mention that you focus on senior positions, which kind of position and in which market/product you recruit ? What is the market demand in the City ?

Best,

 

[FloPer]

Hi Andy,

I do both. Mainly London but we also sometimes get mandates for NYC.

Market here is quite busy. On the quant side we see mainly mandates on CD and IRD but since this is on the senior level it doesn't necessarily represents what the junior market is like.

Cheers

Florence

 

[hooyas]

Dear Floper,

I am an IT Consultant very much into c#.net and asp.net development currently.

1) Would it be feasible for me to switch to Quant developer for better finance prospects?

2) I have also seen a Paul Wilmott CQF course at 7city.com. Would you advise on taking up this course.

3) After doing the course, how easily can I find a job and what kind of salary can I expect.

Thanks..

 

[DominiConnor]

As well as being a headhunter I teach the C++ part of the wilmott CQF (long story), so I have to delcare an interest.
Knowing C# will help you with C++, and a bit of dillgent study will sort that problem out, though not as quickly as you might like.
Given you've 8 years in s/w, what language did you do before ?

We don't see much explicit demand for CFA for quant roles.

If you did a real CS degree then you should leverage it by understanding C++ at a depth that most quants just stare blankly at. A simple, but surprisingly good test for real CS degrees is whether you know
That a closure is not what you do with files.
deMorgans Law is not a TV cop show
Pipelining has nothing to do with oil
Doubles aren't reals
You can right now, with no manual write "hello world" in at least 5 distinct languages.
(hint C#, Java, C and C++ count as one language)

For various long winded reasons, given your MBA I'd also get very good at Excel VBA,.

 

[Isaac]

MFE @ ICMA Centre

Hi, Dominic/Florence,

I hav a Bsc in Engr, 15months wt PwC, strong numerical skills/knowledge of VB/C++.

I hav just gotten admission 4 MFE @ ICMA centre (univ of readin) and MQF @ Rutgers.

I'm ok wt working in London/NY.

Can u guys comment on the quality of the program at the ICMA centre, I seem 2 be pretty certain (readin posts here) that rutgers bloated their internship/placement info on their site.

 

[DominiConnor]

I have no knowledge of Rutgers bloating internships.
I suppose, all other things being equal, I'd pick Rutgers, but that's making a lot of assumptions about you.

 

[NumbersGuy]

Help! Career change from trading sys dev to FE?

Hello,

I'm a C++ developer in the options trading industry. My MS is in electrical engineering and I started my career as a mathematical analyst in the defense industry who programmed a lot. I had to switch to development to get into the trading industry some years ago.

I now score in the 94th/95th percentiles on tests like Brainbench and have a strong understanding of equities and options. I have worked with FEs, traders, and accountants, and led teams outside the industry. I've never made the switch back into analysis and I've never gotten into management or leadership within the industry. My primary fault has always been to be too thorough (read slow) for the industry.

I am now on the job market and have had a few successful 2nd and 3rd interviews, but for one reason or another the companies have not pulled the trigger.

Could some of you nice, learned, random people give me your thoughs on these choices?

1. Take an opportunity I may have to become a junior quant with a small cross-asset firm at about a 40% cut in base salary.
2. Pursue a couple of opportunities at being the only developer at very, very small companies.
3. Look in earnest for a quant developer job (have had a couple of leads, but haven't really focused on that as opposed to general trading sys dev).
3. Look for another jr. quant job at a smaller cut in base pay.
4. Look for a team leadership position.
5. Keep plugging away at C++ trading system development jobs.

Any input will be much appreciated.

 

[reginald]

Hi All

I have also switched careers from Engineering (Chemical) to Quantitative Finance. I'm currently in CFA program and would love to also obtain an MBA (this will be for understanding the business/economics and strategy issues and not technical). I have been finding the adjustment very painful from engineering to finance. I would like to ask other people who have switched how did they cope and is it really worth it.

 

[Cat Halliwell]

Hello,

I'm a C++ developer in the options trading industry. My MS is in electrical engineering and I started my career as a mathematical analyst in the defense industry who programmed a lot. I had to switch to development to get into the trading industry some years ago.

I now score in the 94th/95th percentiles on tests like Brainbench and have a strong understanding of equities and options. I have worked with FEs, traders, and accountants, and led teams outside the industry. I've never made the switch back into analysis and I've never gotten into management or leadership within the industry. My primary fault has always been to be too thorough (read slow) for the industry.

I am now on the job market and have had a few successful 2nd and 3rd interviews, but for one reason or another the companies have not pulled the trigger.

Could some of you nice, learned, random people give me your thoughs on these choices?

1. Take an opportunity I may have to become a junior quant with a small cross-asset firm at about a 40% cut in base salary.
2. Pursue a couple of opportunities at being the only developer at very, very small companies.
3. Look in earnest for a quant developer job (have had a couple of leads, but haven't really focused on that as opposed to general trading sys dev).
3. Look for another jr. quant job at a smaller cut in base pay.
4. Look for a team leadership position.
5. Keep plugging away at C++ trading system development jobs.

Any input will be much appreciated.

As a Quant recruiter from and IT recruitment background I would say that the easiest way to transition would be to get yourself a Front Office Developer position - use this to increase your business knowledge and then make an internal move. Banks such as Credit Suisse have a large internal mobility program allowing employees to apply for moves internally without restriction. Some areas such as "Front Office IRD RAD Development" expect employees to be within the group for no more than a couple of years before moving into either a Front Office or Quant role.

Hope this helps.

Cat

 

[raywin]

I am just wondering to know how come people want to be quant. I guess they don't really know what quant did. If people does not have Phd right now, just forget it. Actually, it does not mean if people does not have Phd, he or she can not be a quant. However, there are a lot of guys with Phds in the market. If you were the recruiter, how do you choose? So if you are an IT guy, how come you will switch? Contractor IT job will make you richer than to be a quant. We work just for money, maybe someone didn't agree with me. But I think it is true.

 

[Pasion]

raywin,

You are probably right that you would be making more money as a contractor but you're forgetting that in the long term the quant job has higher job stability (relatively speaking), greater salary potential, and more exit opportunities.

 

[woonkean]

As well as being a headhunter I teach the C++ part of the wilmott CQF (long story), so I have to delcare an interest.
Knowing C# will help you with C++, and a bit of dillgent study will sort that problem out, though not as quickly as you might like.
Given you've 8 years in s/w, what language did you do before ?

We don't see much explicit demand for CFA for quant roles.

If you did a real CS degree then you should leverage it by understanding C++ at a depth that most quants just stare blankly at. A simple, but surprisingly good test for real CS degrees is whether you know
That a closure is not what you do with files.
deMorgans Law is not a TV cop show
Pipelining has nothing to do with oil
Doubles aren't reals
You can right now, with no manual write "hello world" in at least 5 distinct languages.
(hint C#, Java, C and C++ count as one language)

For various long winded reasons, given your MBA I'd also get very good at Excel VBA,.

Hi Domini,
I am a very technical C++ developer and have almost 10 years working experience in Real Time System and Scheduling / Optimization system development. I also have a bit experience in Back-Office Settlement System development.

My situation is now I am keen to move into Front Office or Quant Developer role in banking industry. I have do some survey in CQF course. It seems quite relavent to my career goal. The blocking issue for me is that the course fee is quite high to me. It costs around MYR 55,000 or US18,000. If I finished the course, would it help me to find a job as Quant Developer ? And how tough is the course is if my backgroup is Computer Science but not major in mathematic and no academic backgroup in Finance ? Is the CQF course in 7City.com available in Malaysia or Singapore ?

Thanks for answering my question.