Columbia MSOR or Cornell Financial Engineering

[Sherlock]

Dear All, I have an issue I need to figure out. I was redirected from Columbia FE to Columbia MSOR (I need to respond with a paragraph why I would be interested to take it). Imagine I get it. Now comes the issue: which one is better if you want to persue a carreer in finance: Columbia MSOR or Cornell FE. I already got the admission from Cornell. (I will post my results in the tracker when I am done )

Here are my thoughts.

First about Columbia. I wanted FE more but it is irrelevant now. First it has the advantage of being in New York. However, this is not that big of a difference since Cornell's last semester is in NY as well. So why Columbia? I think it is juuuuuuuuuuuust a little bit more respected as a name. Both of them are Ivy League. Looking at the big picture Columbia is around 11th place and Cornell 15th. However, it is better to compare the programs not the schools as a whole. So I have no information about MSOR. I have read some stuff but not enough to have a clear oppinion. Let's say you go to Columbia MSOR. What are the perspectives in front of you? Do you have high chances of securing a summer internship in a well-respected company, and by well respected I mean top 10 (GS and company :D). This is only if you decided to finish the program in 3 semesters. And later on what are you chances of becoming an analyst/associate in one of these companies?

Cornell now. I really really like Cornell. I have read a lot about it for the past week and my oppinion is becoming better and better. It is Ivy League. It is respected. It offers great carreer services which I am not sure about Columbia MSOR. From what I have read they really do take care of their students. The people in the program both faculty and students seem to be very bright. They do help you find an internship. I have read that their placement stats were better than Columbia's around 2008/2009. Last semester in NY should be great. Also I have read that some people did their Senior Projects with GS, JP, Deutsche so Cornell really is well-respected.

To summarize, I really like Cornell and Columbia FE but now I need to think about MSOR. I particularly want to hold a position that would give me the opportunity to work with structurers and traders to model new exotic derivative products and trading strategies. Working with traders using models to analyze risk and develop opportunities in trading books for complex derivatives would enhance my understanding of what it is like to work in the front office. Sooner or later I would like to try traders position so I must aim for sales&trading. I am not sure if Columbia MSOR would head me in this direction. What do you think?

As a whole which program do you think is better ( I know they are different and hard to compare). Which one is more respected? Which one would help you more in securing a job? In the long term I know it is up to you to be successful but still now you should try to take the right decision and this is what I am trying to do.

I would kindly ask the people with experience to give me their piece of mind. Thank you in advance.

Good Luck to All.

 

[Penglu]

I would suggest to go to Cornell. 1. 5 year is about right to learn something and have an internship experience, while 1 year is just something on your resume without so much value. IMO

 

[Sherlock]

I believe Columbia MSOR can be extended to 3 semester as well ? And still you cannot call a MS from Columbia just something on yor resume without so much value ?

 

[Penglu]

I believe Columbia MSOR can be extended to 3 semester as well ? And still you cannot call a MS from Columbia just something on yor resume without so much value ?

Sorry man, I just got redirected. Feel not very happy about the school. That's it lol. You know, a lot of personal feeling involved. All financial engineering programs are excellent. That's why so many exceptionally good people pursue this degree. But everyone share different views on these top programs.

 

[tonylich]

Vote for Cornell 1.5 yr program. These two programs are job-oriented, so make it more flexible. If coming back to Asia, I do not see Columbia has advantage.

 

[Sherlock]

@Joy Pathak what do u think ?

Thanks in advance to all of you guys.

 

[Mayur Patel]

Cornell.

 

[zimingsk]

I heard Cornell has its last term in NY...if thats true then I would say Cornell....

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Cornell has its last (3rd) semester in NYC where they use a room in the same building as CMU at 55 Board Street. I went there couple months ago when I visited CMU. The facility is quite small compared to CMU. It's not a "campus" in any meaningful sense, just a small rental place that they use for classes and meeting.
That would mean you need to find housing in NYC after living in Ithaca for a year.

 

[Joy Pathak]

@Joy Pathak what do u think ?

Thanks in advance to all of you guys.

Both are good names. You should call and find out about their placements and just pick the place where you believe you have a better fit. I think in terms of prestige, both the schools are ivy league and have equal prestige on the street. Columbia will keep you in the city throughout the program so that is an advantage.

At the end of the day you just have to pick where you believe you will be a good fit.

 

[Sherlock]

I don't see a big problem with Cornell NY campus being just a floor. I mean you will get the experience of a really nice campus in in Ithaca anyway. However, do you think being in NY all the time (what Columbia MSOR offers) can be a huge advantage having in mind you don't have any realtions in the financial world? You are also in NY with the Cornell program for the summer and the last term. I am thinking if the first 2 semester away from NY can be crucial. From what I read there are always Wall Street conferences/meetings and so one around and you might be missing a lot? Or am I wrong? I guess Cornell's career services are really good, but can they compansate for not being in NY and still giving you the opportunity to get a great internship?
I must say I am goal-oriented person and it I have the opportunity I will do everything to get 100% out of it. I just don't know if you have the same opportunities ?

 

[coolharvard]

note that Cornell and Columbia MSOR have same designation on the diploma... (Cornell diploma says "Master of Engineering in ORIE" (but they give you a certificate in Financial Engineering (FE is not noted in Cornell's diploma)), while Columbia diploma says "Master of Science, Operations Research).....

 

[Sherlock]

I know and I don't think this makes a difference But still thank you for the advice

 

[pepepersel]

I have been having similar thoughts when comparing Columbia MFE (which I got in) and Stanford's MS&E (which I expect to get in!

). These are quite different programs in well-respected universities; each with advantages and disadvantages with respect to what i want to do.

In your case, i would say these:
-Brand and respectability are great for both universities/departments, especially if you go work abroad. In Wall Street, I do not really know if they prefer one over the other, but in the end, I don't think that people/recruiters at the Street are so narrow-minded to only look at the title of the degree or the university name in your resume, without looking at your significant coursework, your grades and the rest.
-Location is something you need to figure out yourself. do you really like distant Ithaca? Do you like living in a huge city like NYC? In terms of job placement, you may have an advantage if you live in NYC, because you can drop by an employer's office and talk about your case, or benefit from a Professor's connection in a local firm etc...also, perhaps after a guest lecture by a professional who works in a NYC-based firm, you can easily do a follow-up in person.
-Coursework: If u check Columbia's OR, you'll see it's very flexible and you can definitely choose many courses, which are considered traditionally FE.
-Duration of Studies: i think that both programs can be completed in 3 semesters. Cornell generally offers the internship thing as an almost mandatory option (correct me if i am wrong on this!), but nobody would stop u to look for a summer internship if you do Columbia's OR in 3 semesters.
-Career Services: In my opinion, the important things are placement statistics and whether the master programs (or the departments offering them) have dedicated career services. With dedicated career services, you have a good chance to look for jobs just for your profile, while many recruiters will come looking for people like u directly. I know that Columbia's IEOR Department has that. I don't know about Cornell FE (I haven't researched it...). Without dedicated career services, you can use the general university's services, so in both cases -Cornell and Columbia- these are equivalent (really, you cannot tell the difference about these things between two Ivy League schools!). Concerning placement statistics, you should ask both programs to send you those, cause sometimes the websites can be misleading (by stating overall department statistics or by quoting obsolete statistics etc). Finally, check who the employers are and what positions they have employed for, and please don't get stuck in details (for example, career placement of 50 out of 60 as compared to 52 out of 60 does not make a huge difference!!!!)

In conclusion, do not beat yourself over tiny details, cause you may get into the best program in the world (from all perspectives mentioned above) and still fail to get a job etc, while on the other hand you can get into a less good/respectable/etc program and become the most successful professional in a top-tier firm!! In the end, it's up to you to prove yourself and build your resume/profile with the things you do in and out of class, your grades, your experiences, your network etc etc! Tiny differences in brand, respectability and the other areas i mentioned above are just gonna get you so far...so, choose what mostly fits your personality cause both are good options overall!

Hope this helps!

 

[Sherlock]

Thank you for your reply it was really nice to see people actually thinking about the problem. To be honest from my research so far I have the impressiona that Cornell really do take care of all its people in the FE program. On the other hand I am not sure about Columbia having in mind it has 3 amlost similar programs. I just think Cornell helps its students more than Colubmai does? Correct me if I am wrong? Thank you again. I am consider the very same points and Columbia's only plus is its location. Everything else goes to Cornell. A guy grom another forum replied that in Columbia you will have to work to your way to interviews while at Cornell recruiters would come to you. I understand this is not 100% sure but still maybe there is some truth. In Columbia you have around 240 people studiny similar stuff and at Cornell it is only 40/50 and both the university and the recruiting firms can pay more attention?

 

[Sherlock]

Anyone, Anything? I really need to make this decision and in the end I will make it by myself, but a piece of advice is always helpful?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You realize neither is a clear winner and perfect choice for you so seeing the different environment each program will present you, which one will you thrive in?
And this is a very telling question: how many current students and alumni from each program have you talked to?

 

[bronson]

adt were you already admitted by Cornell? I have not heard anything from Cornell yet. I was waitlisted by Columbia.

 

[roni]

I personally don't think Columbia MSOR is worth it. It looks like that the program doesn't prepare you well for a quant position. Yes, some dude got a job in trading, but that's not the purpose of this degree and you don't even need a degree to be a trader. And, yes, you can take many of the MSFE courses with the permission of the faculty members and if there are slots left. But, you are taking a big risk here and you will take those MSFE classes without ever taking the prerequisites.

I personally would choose Cornell.
Plus, Cornell ORIE:FE degree has a curriculum that's very similar to Columbia MSFE rather than to Columbia MSOR.

And, you really think you will want to go to those events for networking throughout the degree (especially when you have ton of work to do) ? I doubt you will be occasionally going to these events. If you really think you will be doing it for networking, you can do it during your summer internship and in your last semester in the city OR take a trip to NYC with some friends for an important event.

Another point I would consider is that you need to get an apartment in NYC after living a year in Ithaca.

And, about recruiting, I don't think a Cornell student will have a problem getting a job given that s/he acquired the necessary skills. The stats can be misleading sometimes. Don't forget that many students are international students from Asia. What if they can't be placed because of their language barriers ? math, programming and finance knowledge is not everything, if your communication is not good (not even excellent), you will have a hard time getting a job in NYC.

Good luck with your choice and please update us with your decision :\

 

[bronson]

adt, I saw you did get into Cornell. Can you tell me when you submitted your application? I submitted mine on January 13 and still have not heard from them.