Internship and full time job - protocols?

[Byron]

Hi,
I'm a masters student in NYC about to graduate in December. I had the good fortune of interning with an algorithmic trading hedge fund during the summer (can't share super specifics here, sorry!). It was very hard work, but overall a great experience, and I learnt a lot. As a result, it now looks likely that I will get an offer from here in the next week or so.

Since I am an international student and this would be my first job in the US (though I have prior work experience in finance), I was wondering if I could get some qualified perspective on how to handle this situation. What are the things I should consider? What is a typical base salary for an entry level position? Are expected bonuses/growth prospects more important? I am in touch with some headhunters in NYC who mail time to time about job openings - is it considered unethical to accept a position and then turn it down for a better offer? How is the job market (+ visa bottleneck) overall for algorithmic/high frequency trading? I really like my current firm, just wondering what people usually do in this situation.

Thanks!

 

[MRoss]

Hey Andy, you should have a "jealous" rating as well

 

[Andy Nguyen]

For proper protocol on accept/reject offer, you should ask Ellen Reeves in this topic. She is an expert in this aspect.
As for the base salary, interestingly enough, I'm building a prototype of the Salary database similar to the Tracker.
You definitely should contribute data points for your recent internship and when you get the offer as well.
When we move this out of beta, you will be able to see where your compensation compared to other MFE graduates currently working across the finance industry. You can use filters to drill down to the specific category as well.
The data is growing everyday. Any MFE grad who is working/interning full-time should consider contribute to this database.
http://tinyurl.com/QNSalary

 

[Byron]

Thanks Andy ! I just filled in the survey and will go through Ellen's thread.

 

[TraderJoe]

Take the algo trading job. That will give you the best opportunity to use your superior intellectual ability plus your IIT-Computer Science degree plus your Columbia MFE. The entry-level base will be around $110 K and bonus will be around $50 K. But the salary increases very rapidly and you will be over $400 K gross within 5 years.
Be wary of the headhunters. They may try to steer you into some crappy IB job which is more politics and less brain-power. You will be bored to death in those jobs. The headhunters only care about their commissions.

 

[Byron]

Thank you TraderJoe

 

[Bear]

$110k is high for a masters program graduate, and especially so if you need a visa. Bonus is not guaranteed, you might get no bonus at all, especially if it is a small firm, so don't count on it. Rapid increases and $400k are not guaranteed at all. There is a lot of luck involved besides having to work hard.
Headhunters are usually bad for entry level jobs.

 

[Ellen Reeves]

Hi, Byron. Don't accept an offer and then turn it down for a "better" offer. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you think there's a better offer out there somewhere, don't accept this one. It's a smaller industry than you think and people talk. You don't want to tarnish your reputation before you even start. It's about whether or not you are willing to turn down a bird in the hand for something you might want more (to use more cliches) but this sounds like a great opportunity. My philosophy is that you shouldn't be applying for jobs you don't want or wouldn't accept if they were offered to you anyway. For more specifics and basic info on juggling offers, negotiation, salary, benefits, etc. you can find my Nose Ring book in most libraries or skim that section in a bookstore as a refresher course. Good luck!

 

[Byron]

Thank you Ellen Reeves . You are right - I talked to a few people in the industry, and have decided to accept the offer, which turned out to be better than I had expected at the time of the initial post anyway! My initial indecision was because I had only applied to a subset of algorithmic trading companies for my internship (since most smaller quant funds don't take interns in trading roles). This being an "eat what you kill" industry, working in a team I like (which likes me back!) seemed like a good idea.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Take the algo trading job. That will give you the best opportunity to use your superior intellectual ability plus your IIT-Computer Science degree plus your Columbia MFE. The entry-level base will be around $110 K and bonus will be around $50 K. But the salary increases very rapidly and you will be over $400 K gross within 5 years.

Not sure where you got your numbers from but I got data (lot of them) that shows otherwise.