Is my education sufficient?

[EconGuy]

Hi everyone,

I have an MA in economics from a top university in a foreign (that is, non-US) country. I am currently in my second year of an economics PhD program in the US (ranked between 10-15). I don't think academia is the right path for me, and I am still far away from completing my PhD, so I was considering quitting the PhD to apply for quant trader/researcher roles and I am getting a lot of mixed signals regarding what they expect.

I've taken analysis courses (both a real-analysis course and a course in more general metric spaces), probability, stats, and plenty of econometrics (including some measure theory). Next semester, I plan to take a course in ML and another math course (some subjects from the syllabus: optimal control theory, stochastic processes, probability, measure theory, and topology). Do I have a shot, or are CS and physics students always going to win out over me?

If I do, I'm ready to focus entirely on maximizing my chances of landing a job, but I'd be happy to hear some feedback to make sure I'm not wasting my time.

Thanks

 

[_quanty_]

I think you'd be competitive. I have a BA in econ, minor in math, took some similar courses to you, and worked as a full time economics research assistant for 2 years. I'm currently at CMU MSCF and will be interning as a quant research intern at one of the 20 largest hedge funds in the world. In my interview experience, being able to talk about your research projects from start to finish is a great asset. Not only do you have the skills to answer tough questions, you are good at asking them too. That's valuable.

The stochastic processes class will be good, and more ML will too if you want to go buy side. If you want to go sell side, a stochastic calculus class would serve you well, and learning about different asset classes will too.

That said, I also know some econ PhDs who end up as quants. So if you can't break into the field by getting an internship/job this summer, you could try to focus your PhD on more quant-related topics and then try again later.

 

[EconGuy]

I think you'd be competitive. I have a BA in econ, minor in math, took some similar courses to you, and worked as a full time economics research assistant for 2 years. I'm currently at CMU MSCF and will be interning as a quant research intern at one of the 20 largest hedge funds in the world. In my interview experience, being able to talk about your research projects from start to finish is a great asset. Not only do you have the skills to answer tough questions, you are good at asking them too. That's valuable.

The stochastic processes class will be good, and more ML will too if you want to go buy side. If you want to go sell side, a stochastic calculus class would serve you well, and learning about different asset classes will too.

That said, I also know some econ PhDs who end up as quants. So if you can't break into the field by getting an internship/job this summer, you could try to focus your PhD on more quant-related topics and then try again later.

Thanks!

Should I apply to both internships and full time positions? And by when should I apply for summer internships? Sooner is probably better, but I need more time to prepare.

 

[_quanty_]

Thanks!

Should I apply to both internships and full time positions? And by when should I apply for summer internships? Sooner is probably better, but I need more time to prepare.

Well, it depends on what you're looking for-- an internship or a full time job? But I will say, full time hiring right now is very very slow.

I'll be honest, it's going to be a squeeze to try and get a summer internship if you don't feel prepared for interviews right now. My classmates and I started applying to internships in August, and many have closed by now. There are firms that are still looking, but the vast majority will be filled by the end of February, maybe mid March. So I'd suggest hopping on green and red book and LeetCode asap. It also doesn't help that quant hiring is down this year.

It may be worth your time to focus on your PhD, not rush studying for interviews, and apply to internships and jobs next year. Again, it's possible to get an internship if you start studying now, but you'll be competing with people who have been practicing for months and have gone through many interviews already. If you give yourself until next year, you'll be among those people then. Best of luck, and I'm happy to answer any more questions! Either way you go, life will work out

 

[EconGuy]

Well, it depends on what you're looking for-- an internship or a full time job? But I will say, full time hiring right now is very very slow.

I'll be honest, it's going to be a squeeze to try and get a summer internship if you don't feel prepared for interviews right now. My classmates and I started applying to internships in August, and many have closed by now. There are firms that are still looking, but the vast majority will be filled by the end of February, maybe mid March. So I'd suggest hopping on green and red book and LeetCode asap. It also doesn't help that quant hiring is down this year.

It may be worth your time to focus on your PhD, not rush studying for interviews, and apply to internships and jobs next year. Again, it's possible to get an internship if you start studying now, but you'll be competing with people who have been practicing for months and have gone through many interviews already. If you give yourself until next year, you'll be among those people then. Best of luck, and I'm happy to answer any more questions! Either way you go, life will work out

Thanks! This is really useful info! I think you’re right. Better to take it slow and apply when I’m ready.

When I eventually do apply, I want a full time job.. but it’s probably easier to get an internship, no? Can those turn into full time positions? At the least, it would give me valuable experience.

 

[_quanty_]

Thanks! This is really useful info! I think you’re right. Better to take it slow and apply when I’m ready.

When I eventually do apply, I want a full time job.. but it’s probably easier to get an internship, no? Can those turn into full time positions? At the least, it would give me valuable experience.

You're welcome! Glad it's helpful.

Yes, probably easier to get an internship. Many quant finance internships (and finance internships in general) don't give return offers just given the volatile nature of the finance world. Many do as well. But if it doesn't happen, having a quant internship in your background is certainly a valuable experience.