Mike's Intro and Profile

[MikeWelch]

Hey all,

First of all, many thanks for putting this site together. It's been a really valuable source of info and community that I haven't really found at any other school. I've met a few of you guys at various info sessions, but after months of lurking on Quantnet, this is actually my first post and intro.

I'll have my app in for Fall '07 in a week, but would appreciate some feedback on my profile: I just sat the GRE last week and was devastated when I saw my quant score: I got a V640:Q630 (ugh!). Looking at the admin stats, this puts me in the 1st quartile for admits for most years, but obviously not really where I want to be!

Otherwise my app should be OK. Been working in London for the past 2 years (trading systems), just came back to NY in Aug. BS in Comp Sci, 3.7 overall from a good school, lots of extra-cirriculars, good C#/C++/Java experience, and UK SIP certification (check out the syllabus here).

I guess my question is, how much of a dealbreaker is the quant score?? I'm going to try to take it again before the April 30th deadline to improve it, but Baruch probably wouldn't get the official scores in time...

Any thoughts/feedback/advice/sympathy much appreciated!

Thanks,

Mike

 

[pardasani]

nice profile mike !

Regarding your GRE score, it has been my experience that the admission committee looks at each application individually -- its more about the overall impact .... What matters I guess is will you benefit from the program and it helps you with your future career goals...

If I were you, would finish up the application asap and keep my fingers crossed

all the best

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Agree with what SP suggested.

Send in your application and arrange to sit the next GRE as soon as possible. Since everything else is good, you just need to cram for the Quant section day and night till you take it again.

Make sure you put a note somewhere in your app that you are taking the GRE again in April. My experience with the Quant section is that they are not that difficult, just require some recent brush up on the elementary knowledge.

Probably you've been out of school for so long that it's hard to see a question and recognize it instantly. Do you use a cram book for GRE ? If not, maybe you should get a book that focuses only on the Quant section.

People won't jump up and down when they see 630 Q but the overall impression that lasts. Get a few more questions right and you should go right back in the 750+ range.

Goodluck at the next GRE, Mike.

Updated: just realize that your official score may not arrive before the deadline (4/30). It should not be a problem provided that you do well in the GRE Q, notified the program of your new and improved Q score. They will probably allow you to take some summer refresher courses and offer admission provided you do well on those courses too. That would be the best scenerio for you.
Anything is possible. Just keep positive thinking and keep at it.

 

[luso]

Hi Mike,
About your score, V640:Q630. It is a bit strange for a CS guy.
However, keep this in mind that you can increase 100 points in Quan within a month, but it is not very possible to increase 100 points in verbal part. Personally, I don't think the GRE General Quan score is a good measure for MFE students.

I think what matters is your previous education. You were major in CE/CS or CIS/MIS?
If you majored in CE/CS, then I assume you have a degree in B.S. or B.E., and the math part should be ok with you. Since any B.S. or B.E. degree in US requires students to have at least 18 credits math courses. If your grades in those courses are decent, then you still have a chance.

Good luck,

 

[MikeWelch]

Thanks pardasani, Andy, and Iuso for the quick replies! I've booked my GRE and am going to give it another go.

Anyone have any thoughts on good quant-only books? I used ETS and Barron's before based on amazon reviews but opinions here are probably more relevant.

Iuso, in answer to your question, yep I was B.S, straight CS, so I was a little surprised by my score too(!). I think I screwed myself up on the timing on the quant. I was answering like the last 6 questions in the last 2 min which is ridiculous. I think with some work on the practice tests I should be OK.

Andy, thanks for your update. Nice to know there's probably some flexibility there. I figured they might take my word for it until they got my official scores.

So, I'll be practicing away for the next few weeks but thanks again and hope to see you guys in the summer.


Mike

 

[Silverpike]

Iuso, in answer to your question, yep I was B.S, straight CS, so I was a little surprised by my score too(!). I think I screwed myself up on the timing on the quant. I was answering like the last 6 questions in the last 2 min which is ridiculous. I think with some work on the practice tests I should be OK.

Just thought I would throw in my 2c here Mike. I am not applying to the Baruch program at any point; I am an independent trader who hangs around to sharpen my skills.

I took the GRE 3 years ago to apply to graduate school (for Computer Engineering). I am almost done actually, with only a few months left on my degree (yay!). I had a higher-percentile verbal score than both my analytical and quant. This was also true back when I took the SAT for undergrad admission.

If it makes you feel better, I believe analytically-oriented people with high(er) verbal scores are the most likely to succeed. A little known fact is that higher-order thinking in humans is directly tied to language processing. It is universally true that if you cannot explain it, you don't understand it. Scientists have demonstrated that the ability to verbalize something mirrors the same brain process as comprehending it. IMHO, the Baruch program would be wise to make note of this fact....

I have always concentrated on building my own skillset, defining my own criteria for success, and accumulating my accomplishments one at a time. I think if you keep this in mind, you will succeed no matter what life throws at you.

Good luck in your admission to the Baruch program.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Anyone have any thoughts on good quant-only books? I used ETS and Barron's before based on amazon reviews but opinions here are probably more relevant.

I took my GRE in 2004 and I didn't have time to prepare much for it. I bought a Princeton-Review cram book and study it for a week or so. For the quant section, I just looked at the kind of questions they asked. I almost paid no attention to the verbal section since I knew it would be hopeless to try to learn 1000 words in 1 week.

When the test came, I did miss one question in the Quant section, some coin flipping during the verbal section :D and no sweat in the writing section.

I got 790 for the Q and 4.5 AWA. I could have done much better instead of flipping coins in the verbal section but for a week worth of preparing, I couldn't ask for more.

So the moral is, know where your strength and weakness are and maximize your time.

If it makes you feel better, I believe analytically-oriented people with high(er) verbal scores are the most likely to succeed

Now, how does this make me feel ? :D
Despite what my verbal score may suggest, I like to think that I express my ideas in writing very well. I may not know what gerrymander means but I know how to use easy words to explain complicated ideas.

MHO, the Baruch program would be wise to make note of this fact....

Baruch admission committee knows well enough to look past the scores and see the potential of each applicant. Had I applied to another Ivy, score-conscious program, they would have turned me down the moment they see my verbal score ? Well, their loss :smt006

So Mike, do you feel confident about your chance after my pep talk ? Go ahead and ace that Quant section
By the way, I applied to Baruch around this time last year. So there are plenty of time left.

 

[Silverpike]

Now, how does this make me feel ? :D
Despite what my verbal score may suggest, I like to think that I express my ideas in writing very well. I may not know what gerrymander means but I know how to use easy words to explain complicated ideas.

Wow Andy you really took that personally. I was only offering my opinion. I wanted to encourage Mike to feel good about his achievements given his current test scores.

Plus, I was kinda joking about the Baruch admissions thing. Hence the wink.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Wow Andy you really took that personally. I was only offering my opinion. I wanted to encourage Mike to feel good about his achievements given his current test scores.

None taken, specially from my dear members on Quantnet. Hence the :D

I wanted to share my stories with Mike so he can feel confident about his chance as well. Between your encouraging words about the low Quant score and my encouraging words about low Verbal score, I'm pretty sure Mike will have plenty of condifence.

At least, he only has to worry about 1 section of the exam. Study hard, Mike... We are waiting for your good news.

 

[MikeWelch]

What have I started! Yes, feeling much better about a second approach. Everyone's comments have been very positive and encouraging, testaments to the community on Quantnet that I mentioned in my first post.

Thanks for the support and advice guys. You should see some good news from me soon

Mike

 

[MikeWelch]

Where from here?

Hey guys,

I promised an update so here goes... I ended up retaking the GRE and managed a 700 quant. Still not thrilled but an improvement.

So after receiving "the thin envelope" from Baruch, I'm left with a couple options and would appreciate your thoughts if you have any.

I'm accepted into the PostBac program for QF at Columbia. This will give a more comprehensive math background and hopefully put me in a much better place for '08. It is also going to be a much more expensive endeavor, and I guess its possible that I end up in the same position this time next year.

I'm also accepted to Fordham's new program. On the surface it looks like it may be less hands-on (significantly less focus on code and implementation than Baruch), so in that respect maybe a halfway house between an MBA and QF. That may be talking out of turn, but that's my initial impression.

Haven't heard much in the forums with regard to the Fordham program, so would appreciate everyone's thoughts/advice.

Cheers and best of luck to those accepted.

Mike

 

[Bridgett]

Mike,

It seems that you are facing a tough situation right now, and I would not know what to do exactly either. But based on my own experience, I would say -- take some time to see a bigger picture and remind yourself what your ultimate goals are and what makes you truly happy in the lasting terms. The world is bigger than Columbia, Baruch, Fordham, etc. combined altogether. Relax, and do try to think out side of the box -- solutions and/or great ideas will come to you when the timing is right. Although we don't often see it, we always have more and even better options than we think.

Cheers!

Bridgett

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Hi Mike,
Sorry to hear about the "thinness" of the envelop you received. I wouldn't advice you anything before I learn a bit about your options. So after some googling, here is what I found
1) PostBac option at Columbia http://www.ce.columbia.edu/postbacstudies/courses.cfm?PID=35&Content=QSF
It seems to me a certificate program where you learn a bunch of math courses, some stat and one programming course ?
Nice way of making money for them. $1,086.00 per point.
Honestly, you can take the same courses at CUNY for $250/credit. You can sign up as non-degree student at any of the CUNY colleges and take courses. High quality and much affordable.
2) Fordham: Fordham Graduate Business :: Fordham University
Brand new program. You will be one of the first students there. Not much is known about them. A couple of things I'm sure of: it's more expensive than Baruch and my impression is...bleh....
I should note that the Fordham program is not a typical MFE program but rather a complementary program for MBA students. It will give MBA students some quantitative training.

If you really want to join a good program, then apply next year. Take courses this year to improve your math background. I know at least 2 of our admitted students had to apply twice to get in. Of course, they had to take all the neccesary courses and did great to show the effort.

Don't do yourself a disservice by taking those filler options.
When in doubt, you know where to ask for opinions.

 

[Yuriy]

I agree with Andy.

PostBac option at Columbia can be viewed as a nice additon , but not a substitute for an MS degree in FE.
Fordham is not quite known, and we don't know what will happen to them in the next few years.

The best thing to do, as Andy said, would be to take a few math courses and apply again. Courses in differential equations, linear algebra, analysis, stochastic processes (or calculus) are among those that you might want to consider taking. And study for GRE

 

[Andy Nguyen]

And study for GRE

That is if you still want to retry. There will be a new GRE in Sept and I don't know how hard the quant section is.
If it makes you feel better, I personally know lot of applicants this year got rejected with GRE Q 790 and even 800.
As Bridgett said, look at the big picture and see what you want to do. A roadblock now may lead to a better unexpected future. I would still do my PhD and not MFE if not for some unexpected chain of events. And I couldn't be happier for the way things turn out.
Don't worry, you'll be fine, Mike

 

[Yuriy]

I would retry

Especially because I like Baruch so much that now I can't leave it

 

[dstefan]

The ETS gave up changing the GRE, so the September GRE, as well as for the foreseeable future, will be just the same.