My chance in MFE without math/stat background?

[DanielK]

Hello Guys,

I am a recent grad from Penn State with BS in finance with 3.81/4.00 gpa. I have completed CFA level 1 and planning to take level 2 next month. I have a general finance job lined up soon and I am planning to pursue MFE degree after few years of working to hopefully land a job in quant field. Since I have only rudimentary math exposure and background in undergrad, I was wondering if I had absolutely no chance of getting into MFE in the future.

Thank you

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Realistically, no but you can get yourself a better chance by working a few years, getting a few online courses in math, C++, probability, calculus. It's doable.

 

[DanielK]

Thank you for your reply!

If I complete those prereq courses for the program and c++, would my chance be still slim compare to other candidates with math/stat background? Even with the high gre or gmat score??

 

[pingu]

Thank you for your reply!

If I complete those prereq courses for the program and c++, would my chance be still slim compare to other candidates with math/stat background? Even with the high gre or gmat score??

no necessarily. Get math knowledge, probabilities and some programming language you can apply (not C++, believe me on this). Also learn as much as you can about the job you are in. That will be your angle.

 

[Alexander Chen]

no necessarily. Get math knowledge, probabilities and some programming language you can apply (not C++, believe me on this). Also learn as much as you can about the job you are in. That will be your angle.

Why not C++?

 

[BlackMamba]

University of Illinois offers online 'for credit' undergraduate mathematics courses... might be worth checking out!

 

[Phongvasu]

Wow, you were just like me a few years ago. Follow what Andy and pingu said and you will be in MFE program one day. PM me if you want more info.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

not C++

Good to tell us your rationale, for this unmotivated statement i.e. why not C++ in this case?

 

[pingu]

Why not C++?

C++ is a very good language but unless you plan to go in the weeds or looking for a very specific technology job, C++ is not going to be useful.

This is what I have seen for the past 10 years or so. Nobody that works on the business side of things does C++ or has an interest about C++ because it's not useful to get results. Yes, you can write code that runs really fast but, guess what, there is usually an IT group in charge of that. If you want to do IT inside a bank, then learning C++ or Java is not a bad thing but if you want to stay on the business side, learn something that makes you productive and now a days Python and R seem to be the tools used by the business.

I used to be a proponent of C++ and Java but I have learned. In the past Matlab and Mathematica were the tools mostly used by the business (with Excel but you should learn Excel and VBA regardless, to my chagrin). The latter tools have been replaced by Python and R.

I don't have a horse in this race. You can learn whatever you want. I would recommend you to ask around and see what people are using. Also, what the people on the business side are using.

good luck!

 

[Daniel Duffy]

And what about C#?

 

[pingu]

And what about C#?

I would put C# in the same camp as Java. Again, this is just my own opinion, a single data point.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I would put C# in the same camp as Java. Again, this is just my own opinion, a single data point.

C# >> Java for MO validation based on several observations.

It's always good to qualify sweeping statements up-front. Otherwise new student quants will take it as gospel.

 

[pingu]

C# >> Java for MO validation based on several observations.

I don't know what you mean by C# >> Java for MO validation. That's a very subjective opinion. If by MO you mean Middle Office, you are talking about IT's bread and butter.

IT groups usually marry to a platform, Windows or Linux. The decisions after that are sort of straight forward. Also, most of the code is written to a server platform and results presented inside the browser.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I don't know what you mean by C# >> Java for MO validation. That's a very subjective opinion. If by MO you mean MO, you are talking about IT's bread and butter.

IT groups usually marry to a platform, Windows or Linux. The decisions after that are sort of straight forward. Also, most of the code is written to a server platform and results presented inside the browser.

I am saying that C# is becoming popular for quant libraries and model validation is what I am seeing. Java is OK but as a language for quant work would not be my first choice. Each to his own.

 

[pingu]

I am saying that C# is becoming popular for quant libraries and model validation is what I am seeing. Java is OK but as a language for quant work would not be my first choice. Each to his own.

again, from my experience, Java and C# are in the same boat. It all depends what you mean by Quant work.
Quant researchers usually try stay away from low level languages since they are very unproductive. Desk people stay away outright. They don't even try to deal with low level crap. I won't and if I need to, I get somebody in IT to expose or wrap something that I can use from R or Python.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached.
Edward Sapir

 

[IntoDarkness]

i can vouch for pingu for the fact that being very good with python and r is much more important for front office work than c++/java/c#

 

[Daniel Duffy]

i can vouch for pingu for the fact that being very good with python and r is much more important for front office work than c++/java/c#

Can you be more precise? e.g. why you use Python, what kinds of applications and so on.

The language flame wars ended a long time ago.

//
From a software design perspective (the s/w being seen as a product) I wonder if the following issues are on your radar and whether they are important in your case:

1. Who has to support the product and for how long?
2. How costly is it to maintain the (undocumented) code?
3. How easy is it to add new features?
4. How do you do PDE and Monte Carlo (for example) in Python?

 

[Daniel Duffy]

My instinctive gut feeling is that Python is useful for small to medium-sized prototypes that will either be ported to some other languages or will die when they have run their course. I'm guessing to an extent but that's what tends to happen elsewhere..

Your use cases may be different and it would be interesting to hear them.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

On a more general level it is useful to see TIOBE stats (Python #4).

TIOBE Index | TIOBE - The Software Quality Company