Please help me choose between these 2 companies

[Archie]

Hi All,

I am pretty new to the world of finance. In fact just entered the finance domain. With all the subprime mess I feel I could not have chosen a worst time. However, luckily I have an option between 2 companies viz ITG and ATD. ITG is a specialized brokerage firm while ATD is a market maker and recently got acquired by citigroup. Can the gurus out there help me decide which of these 2 companies would be a better option?

I know Citigroup is in a mess but I am not sure how their equities division os doing? Please please help me decide.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

What is your position in each firm ? What would be your responsibilities, technical duties ?
Without those info, I'm afraid most people haven't heard about those firms.

 

[Archie]

ATD is "Automated trading desk" while ITG is "Investment Technology Group"

At ATD, I will be a software engineer in the infrastructure team at ATD. I will be involved in developing servers for stock trading. The work would mainly be in C++/Linux.

At ITG I will be a Principal Software Engineer, involved in the maintainence and enhancement of one of their product called blockalert (BLOCKalert). The work would be in C++, Perl and .Net

Please let me know if I need to post more information.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

The one at ATD sounds interesting. The fact that it is part of Citigroup is icing on the cake.
Where is the location ?

You can also add a poll to this thread to get some consensus

Congratulations with the new job. Forget about subprime mess. Feel good that you got a job when many companies are cutting back.

 

[DominiConnor]

You'll get the Citi brand on your CV which is worth a few points, and you will be at a level where it's problems are mostly above your head.

However, the most important advice I would give you is not to turn down any other job unless and until they give you an offer letter. Verbal does not count. This is contrary to advice I would have given in the spring. Applies to all firms now, not just Citi.

Automatic & Algorithmic trading is a good are to be in.

Developing a product for a broker is not going to teach you as much about the business of making money from the markets. Also I worry just a little about the set of technologies used.
Both roles have C++, but at ITG you will be using Perl and .NET...

Perl correlates highly with "pot holes" in career choices for quants. It is a great tool for the dirty work of getting data in and out of different systems. This heavy lifting is an essential aspect of any scaled up system. Most quants will do something in this area, but when it becomes a major part of your job it can get bad, eroding sharper skills, and is a thankless task. A surprisingly common pothole is where this work is too important for your boss to let you do anything else, yet because it is by necessity only work that business wants done, you find it hard to move.

The correlation is so strong, that in Guide 2.0 we will be explicitly warning about Perl.

I don't strongly lean either way in the .NET/Linux debate on which is better.
However, .NET implies to me that you will get more involved in GUI work, which is not great as a long term career option.

 

[Archie]

Thanks a ton guys for that advice. Dominic, this is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

Yes I have an offer letter from Citigroup. As I am new to the financial world I am not sure how much weightage does the name Citigroup carry. I just did a bit of googling to find out about Citigroup's work culture and what I found was not vey encouraging.
Citigroup Forum - How to get a job at Citigroup. | Indeed.com

The Citigroup position is in South Carolina. There are not too many jobs in SC. If things go wrong the only option would be to move out of state. The ITG position is in LA where there are plenty of jobs. I am just presenting some aspects of the Citigroup position. I have not decided on anything yet and would certainly value all the suggestions I receive here.

Here is my detailed job profiles in the two companies
AT ATD
======
Job description at ATD (Software Engineer)
- Responsible for developing highly-available, high performance, distributes systems that support real-time stock trading.
- Develop, test and deploy code and work with other professionals to translate business ideas in to programs as well as keeping appropriate team members up to date on progress
- Trouble shooting other problems in response to problems, emergencies or sudden changes in markets external provides or ECNs and consulting with peers to develop and refine programs and models.
- Responsible for other duties as assigned.

AT ITG
======
-Design and development of complex trading systems used by our Trading Desk.
-This position is perfect for a "jack of all trades" since it requires knowledge in UNIX/Windows, C/C++/C#/java/Perl, GUI, sql/sybase, client/server architecture.
-The perfect candidate for this position would be a person with a very strong Windows/.NET/C#, UNIX / Perl /C++ software development.
-The candidate's knowledge of Windows development will be applied to guide the Trading Desk group in transitioning its UNIX-based set of applications.
-It's an excellent opportunity for anyone interested in applying their knowledge to build the next generation of Trading Desk tools in a dynamic team of 5-6 developers.
-The candidate will also share his/her time working at improving our existing BlockAlert monitoring and reporting tools which are currently using web technology (Apache/Perl/FastCgi/AJAX).


Thanks again.

 

[iosakwe]

Archie,

I currently work for ITG as a UNIX Engineer on the production side and coincidently, I built out the order routing platforms for Block Alert. Being at ITG, I can tell you that you will learn a lot about Algo trading, which as Dominic stated below, is a hot skill to have if you want to remain in the financial industry. You will also gain the benefits of being at a mid-sized firm, which is recognition if you do good work. I have been in a number of bulge brackets and am definitely content with ITG at this time of my career, but it all depends on the group you work with. I also find that opportunities exist for those who want to bounce around to different groups within the firm. I also know a ton of developers out in LA that have been with the company over 10 years and usually that indicates that things aren't that bad - I bet Citi probably has a lower %. Another pointer is that BlockAlert is a new offering that is growing and doing well, so chances are you can probably expand your skill set / value alot further than going to a established firm like Citi. But at the end of the day, it boils down to your responsibilities , who's paying more and which you feel is better for your career.

Congrats and if you do decide to join ITG, drop me a email.

Without those info, I'm afraid most people haven't heard about those firms.

Correction: Most folks on the street that trade via ATS know of POSIT for sure.

 

[nerdyPeon]

Need help to choose between these 2 options..

Hi all,

I am in a dilemma and need some suggestions about whether i should accept the offer to work in Equity Derivatives Sales or Equity Research (both are in different firms).. pls note that I just graduated with a bachelor degree in finance and i'm rather open-minded to learning new knowledge.. could anyone please advise which is a "good starting platform" and which is a "career with better prospects"? In addition, I intend to pursue an MBA 4-6 years from now..


Thanks and I appreciate your suggestions

Rob

 

[alain]

Hi all,

I am in a dilemma and need some suggestions about whether i should accept the offer to work in Equity Derivatives Sales or Equity Research (both are in different firms).. pls note that I just graduated with a bachelor degree in finance and i'm rather open-minded to learning new knowledge.. could anyone please advise which is a "good starting platform" and which is a "career with better prospects"? In addition, I intend to pursue an MBA 4-6 years from now..


Thanks and I appreciate your suggestions

Rob

Which firms? Sales will probably pay more.

BTW, your mind will close rather quickly as soon as you hit the job market.