End of Year Reflections on MSOR
I recently checked this forum after having not visited it for months and discovered that my inbox was full of messages asking for more information and a post-finals posting. I had no idea so many people were reading this stuff, but since there's demand for it and I have a bit of free time, here it goes.
Second semester is now over, I along with many of my classmates have finished the MSOR program, and there are basically two questions that are being asked of me to provide: 1) What am I and what are my classmates now doing with our lives? 2) If you are just entering the MSOR program in the fall, what courses should you take if you want to get the most FE out of the program?
I'll start with question #1 as people seem to be most interested with this topic. I am pleased to report that I have been offered 3 great positions at large financial firms. One position is in risk management, one in derivatives trading, and one in portfolio management. All are bulge bracket companies. I have not yet decided which one to take, but I can tell you that I would have been very happy to have been offered just one of these jobs, let alone all 3. These positions are also the kinds of positions I wanted before I entered the MSOR program, before I knew there would be a horrific hiring situation, so I am doubly happy that this deplorable market has not forced me to compromise my job prospects. That said, it was definitely waaaay more challenging to find these jobs than I thought it was going to be. My resume and cover letter must be in the trash cans and shredders of over 400 offices by now. In the end, each offer came from postings on Columbia's career center website. One was on-campus recruiting, two were just regular postings. So I guess the takeaway from my story is that even in this market, you can get the job you want out of the MSOR program. Next year it can only be better for the new MSOR class. If it gets worse, we have bigger things to worry about than our dream jobs.
Now for the more sobering part of the story for question #1. First of all, as I have said in my previous posts, I am a bit different demographically from most of the MSOR, MSFE, and MAFN students at Columbia as I am an American citizen. 2 of the 3 jobs I was offered had either hinted or made it clear that they would only hire people they didn't have to sponsor for visas. (The other job I was offered did hire at least one person they have to now sponsor for a visa - and they're making good on that offer.) Another thing we're seeing here is that a lot of students who originally had planned to finish the program in a year and seek full-time opportunities immediately are now extending their stay to a third semester to try their hand at full-time recruiting next year. A good number of these students have secured summer analyst positions in the meantime, as it seems that firms were much more willing to offer these positions this year. This means that there will be increased competition next year for full-time positions out of the MSOR and MSFE programs simply because there are more students left over from this year. I encourage anyone who plans to do those programs next year within one year to get themselves a good summer position NOW to be able to compete with my classmates, who will have that experience.
I'll now address the lighter topic of question #2, which is how I think you should decide your courses if you want to maximize your exposure to FE. First of all, there are 4 required courses: Probability & Statistics, Stochastic Models, Deterministic Models, and Simulation. Nearly everyone waives Probability & Statistics since we've all taken it in undergrad, so I will take that as given. If you can, try to waive Simulation as well, but most people take this course. You CANNOT waive Stochastic Models or Deterministic Models. You can certainly place out of them if you have already covered the material in your undergrad program, but in that case you will have to replace them with their PhD level equivalents. I would encourage anyone who can do this to do so, because employers are more concerned over the rigor of your program than your GPA. Get yourself above a 3.5 with PhD level coursework and you're absolutely golden. They won't tell the difference between a 3.6 and a 3.8 and a lot of times won't even ask for your GPA since they assume you're good enough if you're already in the MSOR program in good standing. I am saying this because a lot of students opt to stay in courses they've already done to get an easy "A" out of it. Nobody respects this, including both employers and your fellow classmates - trust me. Anyways, there are two types of students who are in the MSOR program and want to do a lot of FE: there is the student with a good amount of finance coursework in his background, and then there is the student without this background. For the student without any finance background, take Intro to FE your first semester and then fill up on electives in your second semester as much as possible. A common question I'm asked is, "Can I take Intro to FE without having taken Stochastic Models first?" The answer is YES. In fact, most people take them at the same time in the first semester. For the student with a finance background, chances are Intro to FE is too basic for you. You then have the option of taking Pricing Models for FE in your first semester, but this may even be too basic for you as well (it was too basic for me). If you think both courses are too basic for you, then I would encourage you to do what I did. I took Stochastic Models, Deterministic Models, and Simulation all at the same time in the first semester along with a business school course and a math course. With all my required coursework done, that left 5 electives for me to take in my second semester, all of which were entirely my choosing. I actually ended up doing 5 classes plus an extra 1.5 credit class because I wanted to learn the topic. Which brings me to my next point. The electives are the best part of the program. Don't do something like take continuous-time asset pricing (a required course for MSFE); you can do it, but the electives are much better, more interesting, more applied, and make for better conversation during interviews. Anyway, all you need to graduate at the end of the day are those required courses and 6 total courses taught by the IEOR department (the required courses can be included in this total, so you can take 4 courses outside the department if you want). You also need a GPA above 2.5, but really the bare minimum you should get is a 3.0. Shoot for a 3.5+.
I have a bit more insider information for course selection. Stochastic Models and Simulation are offered both first and second term. The following is an interesting little tidbit of information that the IEOR department doesn't want you, as master's students to know. It offers these courses both semesters under the same course number, but the material and level of difficulty is MUCH different by semester. Stochastic Models is taught in the Fall by David Yao and the class is made up of all MSOR students. It is then taught in the Spring by Ward Witt and the class is made up of mostly undergraduate students. As I think I have said in previous posts, the gap between the undergraduate and graduate students is vast. It is not surprising, then, that Stochastic Models is much, much, much easier in the Spring when taught by Ward Witt because the makeup of the class is predominantly undergraduate. Similarly, Simulation is much, much, much easier in the Fall when it is taught by Mariana Olvera because the makeup of the class is predominantly undergraduate. (It is taught in the Spring by Jose Blanchet and most students are graduate.) To recap, Stochastic Models is way easier in the Spring, and Simulation is way easier in the Fall. This is due to Columbia pampering its undergraduates, calling the courses the same thing but then separating the undergraduates from the graduates and making the courses less difficult. Right now, MSOR students can cross over and take advantage of this. Once enough MSOR students do this, they'll probably give the courses different numbers and restrict graduates from taking them. But for now, it works just fine.
My last piece of information is that when taking Deterministic Models, keep up with the course and do your own homework. This course has TONS of material, and it is one of the rare examples I've found of a course that is extremely difficult to learn in a week before the final. I did just that and thankfully was cushioned by a good midterm. I ended up with a B, the lowest grade on my Columbia transcript, but know I could have gotten an A if I had just spent a bit of time going over the material each week. I also would have had less hellish finals period. At Columbia, you will VERY OFTEN have finals on consecutive days or two on the same day, so if possible, avoid that end-of-semester cramming.
