Toronto MathFin U of Toronto MMF Question

[corbin]

Hey
Just started looking around at getting into Quant. I'm going into my Junior year at St. Francis Xavier, and will graduate with an Honors degree in Mathematics in 2011. I've been reading about the Master of Mathematical Finance at UofT program and see it is quite competitive. I just wanted to gauge how competitive it was. Are there any U of T students here, what were your marks like and what summer jobs did you have? I'm aiming for an average between 85-90% (above an 85 is an A+ at St.FX) for my final two years. I doing a summer research job with my professor currently and will get to attend a student research conference in the fall. I plan on running for Student Union President but if that is uncessful I'll apply for the Vice-Pres of Finance. Not sure how likely getting either of those posistions are and they will probably cause my marks to dip in my Senior year. If I don't either of those jobs should I do more research or look for an internship? Any advice would be awesome> Thanks!!

Corbin

 

[EconomicsStudent]

I just transferred into BA Mathematics at York University (ignore my name) and I am also considering applying to MMF at U of T after I graduate.

It's extremely competitive. They only accept 25 students out of about 350 applicants every year.

 

[dstefan]

Accept or enroll? What is the class size at Toronto?

 

[EconomicsStudent]

This is from the Application FAQ section on their website:

What fraction of applications do you accept?
Usually we receive about 350 completed applications. Almost all of those are very reasonable applicants who could do very well. Our class size is 25-30.


My background meets all the requirements for the Program. You are obliged to admit me?
We receive very many more qualified applicants than we have capacity in the Program. That means, very unfortunately, that we are obliged to turn away many people who would be able to complete our Program very successfully.


I am very sorry not to be admitted. Please tell me what is wrong with my application.
There may be nothing wrong with your application. Competition is very intense, but we simply cannot admit everyone we would like to.

 

[dstefan]

Thank you. This means the class size is 25-30. They must admit more than that to enroll that many people.

 

[EconomicsStudent]

Good point. Though I can't find any statistics on how many they actually do admit.

 

[dstefan]

The numbers were close enough to those for the Baruch MFE program this year, and I just wanted to make sure I am reading them properly.

(We had 352 applicants this year; 29 were admitted, and 24 will join our program this Fall; 8% admission rate, >80% yield.)

 

[corbin]

Hey thanks for the info, MMF UToronto 2009-2010 Applicants, has some profiles of people accepted, gpa's seem to be 3.8 and above, time to hit the books

 

[EconomicsStudent]

I wonder if John Hull teaches any other courses at U of T in addition to the Derivatives course.

 

[corbin]

Oh yea one other question, I have to write a thesis for honors and was wondering what I should do it on to help get into a MMF program? I'm not too sure the procedure at my school but I think I could write it in my Jr year, would that help on an application so I could show them it while applying?

 

[Dibbs]

@EconomicStudent. Hull doesn't teach for the MMF program, but, we do have to take a class given by White. It's an MBA class given in the winter semester at the same time that students are doing their internships.

As for the class size, we are currently about 30 students. Two students have dropped out since the beginning of the program. One got a job offer one month into the program and another left for other opportunities.

 

[DanM]

@EconomicStudent. Hull doesn't teach for the MMF program, but, we do have to take a class given by White. It's an MBA class given in the winter semester at the same time that students are doing their internships.

As for the class size, we are currently about 30 students. Two students have dropped out since the beginning of the program. One got a job offer one month into the program and another left for other opportunities.

An MMF student! Finally! I've never had the opportunity to speak with one before.

Being from Toronto, UofT would be my first choice.

What's the program like in terms of curriculum (is it heavy on programming, which language is used most frequently), workload, etc? Which companies have students done their internships with?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

@Dibbs @DanM
I'm surprised you two haven't run into each other on Quantnet as I know both of you have been around for over a year and posted quite a bit already.
I notice we have more members from Toronto area lately so maybe someone can organize a Toronto meetup there this summer and I can drive up there to join.

Look to hear more about your experience in the Toronto MMF program, Dibbs. The interview process makes it sound like they are selecting a bunch of math geeks.

 

[DanM]

Hm, come to think of it, I may have seen him around. Though I haven't been on much lately, and I don't think he has either. I doubt I've talked with him since he started the program.

I'd be down with a Toronto meetup.

 

[Dibbs]

@Andy Nguyen : What do you mean when you say they are recruiting a bunch of math geeks ? Please explain a bit more.

@DanM : The UofT MMF is more oriented towards risk management than other programs, this is also reflected in the types of internships that students are able to obtain. Most of the students are placed in model vetting groups at various institutions (one kid was placed on a trading floor). As for myself, I am interning at Scotia Capital. Internship placement is 100%, even students with almost no previous work experience are able to land an internship. In terms of job placement, so far, only 5 students have been able to land jobs (1 consulting, 2 IBs, 1 software company, 1 insurance co.). I am a bit disappointed by the help of the staff concerning full time jobs. I have been able to land a FT offer after networking sessions and contacting people on my own.

The workload is very heavy in the first semester, but the teachers are also flexible concerning that. We were able to push one or two deadlines in times of intense rush periods. For the programming language, the MMF does not "teach" a programming language, it assumes you already know how to code efficiently (although I quickly realized some math students had almost no coding experience...). MATLAB is used in most of the classes as the professor judge it is an easy language to learn and students who lack this knowledge can quickly learn to use it. I believe this is a weak point; the widely accepted standard is c++ and not knowing it CAN hurt you.

In terms of teachers, I would say we have had one bad teacher on a total of 7 so far. I would say 3 out of the remaining were average (very helpful teachers, but projects were sometimes too .. childish.. could of been more of a challenge). The star teachers were definitely Tom McCurdy and Sebastian Jaimungal.

So thats all I have to say for now, let me know if you need more information.

 

[Dibbs]

Oh, here's a list of companies that students intern at :
OTPP (Ontario's Teacher Pension Plan)
CPPIB (Canada Pension Plan Investment Board)
Manulife
ScotiaCapital
BMO
CIBC
RBC
Algorithmics
OMERS
etc...

Usually the companies are big names, students don't really get internships on trading floors or hedge funds.

 

[Dibbs]

Also, i'm angry at their website. It is old and I think it gives a bad first impression of the program.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Really good info, @Dibbs
I was alluding to the fact that the interview format at UoT MSMF sounds more like a thesis defend than at other programs according to what I have read. What do they ask and test at these meetings?

 

[Dibbs]

@Andy Nguyen : You're somewhat right, the interview process is a bit "weird" to me. I don't really know what they are looking for in those group interviews. They put a lot of emphasis on communication skills, hence the required short presentation. Since I am originally from outside of Toronto, I was only given a short phone interview (qualitative).

I can PM you the e-mails and names of the program's staff if you'd like to contact them and ask them more questions on the program.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Also, i'm angry at their website. It is old and I think it gives a bad first impression of the program.

Can you point them to odesk.com, 99designs.com? At least, they can see what the internet is supposed to look like in 2011?
I couldn't stand the website for longer than a minute as the font is too small on my screen. If they can take constructive criticism, please tell them that their website sucks and hire someone to redo it. It's pretty cheap to get that done these days.

If you have contact info of their director or data keepers, please send it to me via a convo. If I'm in the Toronto area, I'll stop by for a visit.

And thanks for sharing your info with us. You oughta write a review for Quantnet.