Unpaid internship grows

[Andy Nguyen]

Would you consider unpaid internships just for the sake of doing something during the summer? The article below indicates a growing number of graduates even from Ivy schools is doing just that.

Confronting the worst job market in decades, many college graduates who expected to land paid jobs are turning to unpaid internships to try to get a foot in an employer’s door.

While unpaid postcollege internships have long existed in the film and nonprofit worlds, they have recently spread to fashion houses, book and magazine publishers, marketing companies, public relations firms, art galleries, talent agencies — even to some law firms.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/business/unpaid-internships-dont-always-deliver.html?hp

 

[bigbadwolf]

A case can be made for reintroducing a slave society where at least those who work get board and lodging. During the Great Depression teachers used to work for just that. There are no jobs and there is no "recovery." I rather liked Max Keiser's take on the unemployment figures:

And I agree with Peter Schiff as well (except for the free market stuff):

Even Mexicans don't see the point of jumping the border:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/25/young-men-mexico-us-future

 

[bigbadwolf]

This was made three or four years back. If it was true then, it's doubly so today.

 

[John]

A recent WSJ article talks about how companies are creating unpaid internship positions in partnership with leading business schools. In this type of arrangement, business schools are paid a fee, while the students perform the work, unpaid. However, the MBA interns do get major support, both in term of available budget and mandate to work on real, meaningful projects.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303990604577368321102243392.html

Free labor? Great. Free labor from top M.B.A. students? Even better.

For decades, companies have relied on business-school students to be unpaid consultants, but now some companies are going a step farther, placing entire brands in the hands of students. Melissa Korn has details on The News Hub.

For decades, companies have relied on business-school students to be unpaid consultants, assessing takeover or expansion opportunities. It is low risk and high reward for firms, with almost no financial outlay and a number of fresh new ideas from eager up-and-comers.

But now some companies are going a step farther, placing entire brands in the hands of students, with the hope of developing long-lasting partnerships between company and school instead of one-off advisory relationships. Schools promote the projects as a hands-on learning experience for students and a solid résumé booster in a tight job market.
Still, the programs aren't entirely altruistic: While the companies get free— or nearly free—labor, and schools' total compensation for these projects can reach into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, the students don't get paid a dime.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Well here's the long and short of it: in the fashion/modeling industry, there is such a thing as "Trade/Time For Portfolio", meaning neither side gets paid. But a photographer would otherwise be hired and a model would otherwise be paid.

The issue here is that a company isn't hired by its employees, and as someone that's been doing unpaid work since late last year, the man employing me explicitly states that he can't just let an intern in the job market see the secret sauce.

Which means that interns aren't even *allowed* to contribute like full-time employees do, and miss out on vital experience.

The way I put it is this: I'd gladly work for free if the cost of living like a decent human being was free. But it isn't. I understand that small shops who have legitimate shoestring budget concerns should be allowed to make a consensual agreement with a person to work for free or to get paid from P&L since they would have literally no other way to hire somebody. But for these large companies to just decide to "team up with universities"?

That's such garbage if I ever heard it. Hello, pay someone a reasonable wage and nuke their student loans! I believe one of the stipulations to unpaid internships was that the employer could not immediately benefit from it and that the intern was actually receiving quality training. But if an employer won't let interns at the proprietary stuff because they know full well that said interns are in the job market and will take their experience elsewhere as soon as they find something...

The whole thing just stinks to me.

 

[Anthony DeAngelis]

I did 3 unpaid internships during my masters and ended up receiving an offer from my current employer. The last thing we need is more barriers to entry in this economy. Anyone who complains about a basic wage when considering the lucrative nature of finance doesn't understand this field.

Furthermore, I have every right to set my wage as I see fit.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

I did 3 unpaid internships during my masters and ended up receiving an offer from my current employer. The last thing we need is more barriers to entry in this economy. Anyone who complains about a basic wage when considering the lucrative nature of finance doesn't understand this field.

Furthermore, I have every right to set my wage as I see fit.

Costs of living, Anthony. If the employer is in NY C and you don't live in NYC, guess what? How are you supposed to pay to stay in NYC? Do you not see the possible downside to your argument?

Edit: Just to clarify, the man I currently work with (unpaid) would hire me if he had capital and is in the process of raising it. However, if people could cover their costs to physically be in their employer's office, don't you think it would INCREASE the possibility of people finding work?

 

[Jayanthan]

Where are we heading ?

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Heading? I've been working under a HFT hedge fund manager that's basically him and one dev in Ukraine. He's running on a shoestring budget right now, but because of a process I put together, he's been able to do better research so now has the numbers to raise capital. Now all that's left is for him to receive the check, but I'm not sure how long that'll take.

In any case, I certainly benefited from this unpaid internship, and I agree that companies of certain sizes should be allowed to take on unpaid volunteers. But if it's some huge company who simply wants to save a little bit of $ while unpaid employees add to their bottom line?

Who? Are? We? Kidding?

 

[Jayanthan]

nice IlyaKEightSix, Thanx for sharing your experience. It was wonderful. Are still with him? Since you were with him at the startup stage, would he take him as one his partners? dont get me wrong,just curious.

 

[TATW]

An unpaid internship made all the difference for me. I understand totally that few companies (except for banks) don't take the time to pay you for a learning period.

 

[Jayanthan]

An unpaid internship made all the difference for me. I understand totally that few companies (except for banks) don't take the time to pay you for a learning period.

would you mind share more about it with us?

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

nice IlyaKEightSix, Thanx for sharing your experience. It was wonderful. Are still with him? Since you were with him at the startup stage, would he take him as one his partners? dont get me wrong,just curious.

Last time we spoke, he asked me for my bio/summary/picture to put in the marketing pitch so he can meet with investors. He isn't just using me if that's what you're asking, but capital raising isn't instant. It's not like it's going to be a super-lucrative gig either considering the small size.

As for companies not paying you during your learning period, this is exactly what has to change. This whole idea of "learn it somewhere else" is ridiculous. People need a roof over their heads. If you're a startup, sure, feel free to get someone to volunteer for you since otherwise you would not have the revenue to hire them anyway. But if you're a large company and you just want to save on costs of labor, then there needs to be legislation that says "F you, not in America".

Sure, that can discourage all the bigger companies from hiring, but I suppose that's not a bad thing--as that'll give the smaller start-ups a chance to snag all of those good candidates.

 

[alain]

If you're a startup, sure, feel free to get someone to volunteer for you since otherwise you would not have the revenue to hire them anyway.

Start-ups usually give you equity or options.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Start-ups usually give you equity or options.

True enough. That said, unpaid volunteers wouldn't stick around long enough, and IIRC, options are only held while the employee is at the firm so the equity doesn't get diluted.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Has anyone heard of any well-known financial firms that have unpaid internships? Do the GS, MS, UBS of the world have these?
All I heard is smallish companies, start-ups, etc.

 

[DominiConnor]

The trick here is to spot internships that are in effect some form of apprenticeship and those that are just looking for cheap labour.
So how do you do that ?

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Has anyone heard of any well-known financial firms that have unpaid internships? Do the GS, MS, UBS of the world have these?
All I heard is smallish companies, start-ups, etc.

Because GS gives an internship to anyone who asks for one. Most of us have to take what we can get =/

 

[pplstuff]

Andy, I was offered an (unpaid) internship at ML about two years ago. The hiring manager told me that it is ML policy not to pay interns. And my buddy who did a UBS internship said the same thing.

As far as unpaid internships go, they're a great way to build your resume. I had two unpaid internships during undergrad, and two paid during grad. The thing is, MOST internships are unpaid - the people who land the paid ones have better resumes/more talent. Meaning, the paid internships generally go to people who have already gained some work exp.

One thing to consider in the workforce is that most recent grads who land a job think, "Omg, they're paying me $60k because I'm worth it! Blah, blah blah. I'll get a raise and promotion in no time!" When, in reality, you won't be worth the $60k for quite some time. You need to learn their business, best practices, etc. This isn't true for people transitioning with a relevant skill set. But, for recent grads, it's pretty true.

 

[Arkons]

I did one unpaid internship as an undergrad at a private wealth management group under UBS and it definitely opened some doors up for me. I didn't have top grades but had a lot of tough mathematics and programming courses in addition to a econ/finance major. That lead to a paid internship/temp role at the investment arm one of the largest companies in the US. That lead to a full time role in a periphery area with the hope of moving back into investment when a position opens up.

I'd definitely jump at the opportunity with the right group/firm.