What program to target?

[mikemasland]

Good evening. I need some career advice.

29 years old.
BS in Computer Information Systems from Drexel University 3.9GPA, 1998-2003.

My experience is mainly technology. After college, I progressed from network admin -> network engineer -> consultant.

In my free time, I became very interested in online poker. Over the course of a few years, I wrote a poker bot which was essentially an algorithm that was able to make money playing online poker. I ended the project because it required too much time, and I didnt want to worry about the U.S. government knocking on my door.

I found the work to be absolutely fascinating. I pitched my poker bot to a few firms in Greenwich, CT and got a job. They leveraged my networking background and I got some great exposure to a quantitative fund. Unfortunately, they abruptly shut down operations in September of 2009.

When the hedge fund shutdown, I took the first job I could get. You see, my career options are somewhat limited because I was arrested as a teenager and charged with felony marijuana possession (I knowI was an idiot). I am currently working on getting the charges removed from my record, but that will not occur until 2011-2012.

Anyways, I became an account executive at a recruiting firm. The job is a pure sales position and I had zero sales experience going into the job. It been an extremely tough job, but I am proud to say that I have built a decent book of business entirely from cold calls and meetings.

However, my quant & technical skills are not getting any use, and I am desperate to get in quant finance. At this point in my life, I think its time to consider a graduate degree which will prepare me for a life in quantitative finance.

In summary:
-Technical skills
-Passion for algorithm development & markets
-Great social skills/Built book of business during tough economic environment.

Goals:
-Entry level quant development
-Eventually run a quant fund or quant research department

What degree/grad school program will best prepare me for such a career path? Never mind the criminal record; I will have to deal with that regardless of my situation. Right now, I just want to be sure I am targeting a program/curriculum that potentially leads to numerous interviews/internships at the top quant hedge funds.

If your goal is to someday develop a quant fund and fill it with assets, what degree is going to best prepare you for that career path?

MIT, Masters of Finance?
Columbia, MSFE?
CMU, MSCF?
Berkeley, MFE?
Stanford, MSFM?
NYU, MSFM?
Princeton, Master in Finance?
MIT, Comp Science PhD?
MIT, Math PhD?
MIT, Physics PhD?

The profiles of high level quants on LinkedIn are all over the place. I seem to find more PhD in physics/math/comp sci as opposed to an MFE/MSFM/MQF. Does that mean I should look at a PhD program rather than an MFE/MSFM/MQF?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

First of all: congratulations on getting back on track after being busted.

Second of all: you stopped the poker bot? No balls! NO BALLS! (I actually had a friend in college who was able to purchase a whole new car from playing online poker)

In all seriousness though, if you want to run a quant shop, there are a few very famous quants who are self-made billionaires. They both have PhDs. In terms of MFE schools, this site has a very good thread ranking them. The top ones are CMU, Stanford, and Columbia MSFE, with Baruch (which sponsors this site) coming in sixth.

If you want a PhD though, while MIT is extremely impressive, if you want in on quant finance, don't overlook Stony Brook. Renaissance Technologies, arguably the most successful hedge fund period (in terms of Medallion, anyway, which is employee-owned only), and easily so if you remove D.E. Shaw from consideration, is only two miles away, and a former RenTec M.D., Robert Frey, is now an adjunct professor of OR there.

But starting a PhD at 30?

 

[chaoticrambler]

Renaissance technologies could be 2 feet away from Stony Brook but it cannot match MIT.


Anyways, on topic: you seem to be a really self driven guy. If I were in your position, and could get a PhD. admit to a top univ, I would take it. And it would be far more easy to motivate your self if you do it in Applied Math (and more relevant to your cause), rather than physics since a whole lot of physics that you would need to study would be totally useless if your aim is to get into quant finance. Most of physics people who are quants now did not start their PhD thinking they would be quants..they were thinking more Einstein.

But I would try NYU-Courant and Princeton (PACM ) PhD programs before looking at MIT/Berkeley, simply because it would put you closer (or in) NYC, and the first 2 programs are as good as the other 2 in applied math (or better).

First of all: congratulations on getting back on track after being busted.

Second of all: you stopped the poker bot? No balls! NO BALLS! (I actually had a friend in college who was able to purchase a whole new car from playing online poker)

In all seriousness though, if you want to run a quant shop, there are a few very famous quants who are self-made billionaires. They both have PhDs. In terms of MFE schools, this site has a very good thread ranking them. The top ones are CMU, Stanford, and Columbia MSFE, with Baruch (which sponsors this site) coming in sixth.

If you want a PhD though, while MIT is extremely impressive, if you want in on quant finance, don't overlook Stony Brook. Renaissance Technologies, arguably the most successful hedge fund period (in terms of Medallion, anyway, which is employee-owned only), and easily so if you remove D.E. Shaw from consideration, is only two miles away, and a former RenTec M.D., Robert Frey, is now an adjunct professor of OR there.

But starting a PhD at 30?

 

[bigbadwolf]

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

I'm not sure the MFE or Ph.D. route would suit someone with your attributes and skills. You seem like a natural enterpreneur, which most quants decidedly are not. The material you need, you can probably pick up yourself (if you have any math aptitude) and do it faster and more efficiently than you could in a formal program.

 

[mikemasland]

I'm not sure the MFE or Ph.D. route would suit someone with your attributes and skills. You seem like a natural enterpreneur, which most quants decidedly are not. The material you need, you can probably pick up yourself (if you have any math aptitude) and do it faster and more efficiently than you could in a formal program.

You raise a good point. I definetely have the entrepreneurial spirit, but I have struggled to get my business off the ground in the past. Looking back, I had some fears to overcome (anxiety of meetings, etc) and instead of dealing with them, I masked the problem.

However, I have come to grips with whatever problems I had in the past. My anxiety will always be there, but I have kept it under control by staying away from bad habits: (alcohol/marijuana) and practicing good habits (prayer/healthy diet/regular exercise)

But, I am stuck in the daily grind of a job that I despise. Without question, I am thankful for the experience the job has provided me, but the enviornment is cut-throat and I have no interest in the work I perform. I have been pushed to build my entrepeneriual skills and trust my instincts (find the business, make a good first impression, maintain persistenency, quickly build trust with a variety of personalities, stay positive during tough times, never quit, etc...) but I do not utilize my technical abilities or passions in any way.

Hmm, what's the next logical step for me? Decisions...decisions...

 

[bigbadwolf]

You raise a good point. I definetely have the entrepreneurial spirit, but I have struggled to get my business off the ground in the past. Looking back, I had some fears to overcome (anxiety of meetings, etc) and instead of dealing with them, I masked the problem.

Hmm, what's the next logical step for me? Decisions...decisions...

Being an entrepreneur is definitely about anxiety and bold decisions (half of them foolhardy with hindsight ...). I can't help you there. But keep in mind that scholars and entrepreneurs tend to be at the opposite ends of a personality spectrum. And you will have to be a scholar to earn a real Ph.D. Such people -- at the risk of generalising -- tend to like security and stability, and tend to be focused on minute questions and issues. This is not the entrepreneurial spirit.

If you glance at most of the posts on this forum, most of the posters are concerned with earning an MFE so as to obtain lucrative but stable employment. They want a regular paycheck. Again, this is not entrepreneurial.