2013-2014 QuantNet Ranking of Financial Engineering (MFE) Programs

[diegosanaz]

I would guess he is under contractual obligation of not sharing that information.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Any info that will be made publicly available has already been made publicly available when we released the ranking.

 

[GoIllini]

On CMU vs Princeton, I don't think this is an unfair ranking.

Princeton's MFin program is a Finance program, not an MFE. It is an odd duck of a finance program- we teach a lot of asset pricing, ARMA and GARCH, stochal and econometrics. But the program publishes a lot of research in not just asset pricing and financial engineering but also corporate finance, economics, and behavioral finance. A lot of our students go on to IBD, PE and various HF strategist roles- probably more students that those who wind up in traditional quant roles at banks.

But the point is that much of the ranking is based on employer surveys, which I *believe* (Andy-correct me if I'm wrong) are geared towards buy-side desk quants, risk managers and perhaps some people in HFT. And to be honest, Princeton doesn't spend as much time on asset pricing as CMU does. We only require one semester of stochastic calculus and one semester of econometrics. It's fair that in a survey of largely quant managers, Princeton will not quite do as well. Honestly, I thought we'd do worse.

I'm also not sure whether the same credit is assigned to placements at the NY Fed, Federal Reserve in DC or top four PhD programs (or for IBD or PE) as for quant roles. If Andy puts more weight on people winding up in HFT or BB desk quant roles, that would be a fair way to run an MFE ranking. If your program graduates 40 students every year and only 20 wind up becoming quants- of the others, 2 get Finance PhDs, 4 work for the government, 8 work in IBD, 4 work in equity research, and a handful of others do VC and PE, you can make the argument that it's not the same kind of quant program as one that creates 50% HFT folks, 30% desk quants, 10% analytics guys, and 10% risk managers.

I think that if you want to be a traditional quant at a bank or go into HFT, it's not unreasonable to see CMU as a close but clear winner in the analysis against Princeton.

I think the kind of student who would choose Princeton over CMU and other MFE programs is the one who wants to stay in finance, but doesn't find it easy to reject the idea of getting an MBA. He likes the idea of being in a small program with a lot of diversity and a lot of very interesting, driven people (you can see peoples' profiles on the guide for recruiters). He might have a CS or CE undergrad, and he wants the opportunity but not the obligation to spend the next 30 years as a quant developer. The Princeton MFin gives you both MFE opportunities and M7 MBA opportunities within finance, and I think that's where its strength is.

 

[Walid mourhrib]

I have a question! is this progam only from students who have a specific type of bachelor background/? like only for business/engineering students or any one can apply for it??

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I have a question! is this progam only from students who have a specific type of bachelor background/? like only for business/engineering students or any one can apply for it??

Many MFE students have degrees in liberal arts but the majority got a degree in quantitative majors. As long as you have all the requirements and can make a strong case as why you want to do this degree, apply.

 

[New Trader]

FYI!!!
@Andy Nguyen MIT has one application deadline - 2nd of Jan, may need to edit under info section.

 

[Pacifico]

Hey, does anybody have information about Hofstra MS in Quantitative Finance and NJIT MS in Mathematical and Computational Finance? Hardly any info of them except on their university web pages!
Thanks

 

[MarketPrajna]

1) Baruch is overestimated. You enumerated tuitions and at the same time you factored them into ranking calculation as well. That causes readers think Baruch has higher rank plus lower tuition. It's a double count. You should lip off the tuition ether from the ranking table or from the ranking calculation.
2) In addition to that, compared to salary which is paid every year for many years, tuition is only once. And the diff is about $30k (assuming the average of MFE is $60k), so it's not significantly big difference and some people wouldn't consider such a small diff ( and I know there are many full-time students who just rely on their parents about the tuition. ) Not surprisingly, some rich people are proud of sending their kids to very expensive school!
3) I believe you are biased because Baruch sponsored to this website.

IMHO, one who received offers from Columbia MF, NYU, MIT and Baruch most unlikely chooses Baruch if they have enough money not to consider the diff. So to be fair, you should separate the tuitions from the ranking evaluation but just display the next to it. Unlike quality of program or job placement, tuition is already an objective number and no need to quantify it into ranking.

 

[Chao Liu]

now let us discuss something about the tuition and fees.

I may not have to take a loan for my MFE study.

But what if one person has to borrow 70K to fully fund his MFE study?

He will pay it back by doing the 4 month internship( 28K), by doing RA or TA (15K, but not sure if this kind of opportunities exist in Columbia,Princeton, Berkeley, MIT)... then will he be able to pay his loan back after working full time for one year?

 

[mhy]

RA/TA is unrealistic. Why have a Masters student be a TA when you have all the PhD students to choose from (and they need the experience more than the MS students)?

28K for a 4 month internship? Never heard of it. When will you have 4 full months to work? Most summer internships are 10 weeks at most and pay around $15K. Obviously you will need to pay for rent and living expenses.

 

[Chao Liu]

the rent and living expense have already been included in the 70K. say , if you go to UCB, and you monthly living expense is 1.2k, so your total expense will be 75K for the program. ( as I know ,some people are good at saving money. 1.2K per month for living is possible ) . Then if you borrow all 75K, when will you be able to pay it back? the first year after graduation? second?

 

[MarketPrajna]

now let us discuss something about the tuition and fees.

I may not have to take a loan for my MFE study.

But what if one person has to borrow 70K to fully fund his MFE study?

He will pay it back by doing the 4 month internship( 28K), by doing RA or TA (15K, but not sure if this kind of opportunities exist in Columbia,Princeton, Berkeley, MIT)... then will he be able to pay his loan back after working full time for one year?

mhy is right on her second part. From my experience, most of MFE students are int'l students and not eligible to get student loan from the US nor to work as an intern before they spend one academe year.
RA/TA is possible but the money from it usually goes for their living expense. Wait, then we need to consider the length of program, which also gives a big expense for completing their program. (two-year program costs double of one-year program.)
At the most irrational part in your comment, WHY do you need to pay back only for one year?

 

[Chao Liu]

as I know there are some if you have a US co-signer, something like that ... but this does not matter anyway because he can borrow in his own country if he wishes...

because the major part of the Total cost is the tuition which is shown as the tuition for the whole program rather than a year. So the cost does increase but does not double.

I don't plan to take a loan . Just out of curiosity, for people who plan to do that, will they be able to pay it back as soon as possible?

 

[MarketPrajna]

because the major part of the Total cost is the tuition which is shown as the tuition for the whole program rather than a year. So the cost does increase but does not double.

I am talking about the living expense for the double part, not tuition.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

1) Baruch is overestimated. You enumerated tuitions and at the same time you factored them into ranking calculation as well. That causes readers think Baruch has higher rank plus lower tuition. It's a double count. You should lip off the tuition ether from the ranking table or from the ranking calculation.
2) In addition to that, compared to salary which is paid every year for many years, tuition is only once. And the diff is about $30k (assuming the average of MFE is $60k), so it's not significantly big difference and some people wouldn't consider such a small diff ( and I know there are many full-time students who just rely on their parents about the tuition. ) Not surprisingly, some rich people are proud of sending their kids to very expensive school!
3) I believe you are biased because Baruch sponsored to this website.

IMHO, one who received offers from Columbia MF, NYU, MIT and Baruch most unlikely chooses Baruch if they have enough money not to consider the diff. So to be fair, you should separate the tuitions from the ranking evaluation but just display the next to it. Unlike quality of program or job placement, tuition is already an objective number and no need to quantify it into ranking.

I'm not sure where in the ranking methodology did you see the tuition is taken into account? It's there on the ranking table because people keep asking about that info.

 

[mhy]

Yes, that was one other thing I wanted to point out. Most international students are ineligible for loans because they lack credit history or a co-signer.

as I know there are some if you have a US co-signer, something like that ... but this does not matter anyway because he can borrow in his own country if he wishes...

because the major part of the Total cost is the tuition which is shown as the tuition for the whole program rather than a year. So the cost does increase but does not double.

I don't plan to take a loan . Just out of curiosity, for people who plan to do that, will they be able to pay it back as soon as possible?

I had about 10k in student loans (My college gave me a $40,000 per year grant but it wasn't enough). Paying back $200 a month, it takes about 7 years to pay in full. Do the math for $70k...

 

[Chao Liu]

paying back 1400 dollars per month.... it is gonna to take them 7 years.............. that is crazy ....... but why do you have to just pay 200 dollars per month? you can pay the whole amount back during the first working year...

 

[mhy]

Tell me again once you've lived in NYC for a year on an entry-level salary.

 

[Chao Liu]

yup, I heard that it is difficult to save money. You are right.

 

[MarketPrajna]

I'm not sure where in the ranking methodology did you see the tuition is taken into account? It's there on the ranking table because people keep asking about that info.

Oh sorry.. never mind. I thought Baruch is so high on the ranking because of their low tuition.. Then, I have no idea why Baruch is so high. I don't hear the reputation of their alumni in the industry.