Aspiring Quant Applying for undergrad degree

[NickTri]

I am very interested in perusing a career as a quantitative analyst because I am good with math and I love to sit down and solve problems. I've also talked with some of my father's friends who are Quants and I liked how the job sounded. I know not everyone here is on the board of the college applications committee but I would like someone to give me some tips on what to major in as I enter my freshman year in college. I have heard that applied math/computer science is a good choice, but I also heard that Math and Finance is a smart decision. Also can you please suggest what colleges or universities would suit this major best.

My scores on the SATs and SAT 2s are
Math:800
Critical Reading: 600
Writing: 640
Math I: 730
Math II:740
Physics:760

My GPA unweighted is: 3.45 and Weighted is 4.25 (take lots of APs
I take a lot of EC activities do lots of community service (10 hours a week) I play Varsity Tennis.

I am interested most in: MIT, Carnegie Mellon and Cornell, but open to suggestion.

Thanks for your insights and comments.
Nick

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Mmmm...an undergrad degree probably won't get you a quant job (but there may still be exceptions). That said, in order to do you some justice:

Quants need to be strong in computation and analytical thinking, and still be able to communicate effectively. I would recommend the following:

A) Applied Math/computer science double major. I know a lot of arts and sciences schools give you so many free electives credits that you can effectively slam two majors together. The upside of this is strong computational and analytical skills, but perhaps not the background of operations research. Use some electives to get a derivatives (that is, calls and puts, not f'(x)) class as well.

B) Industrial Engineering/Information Systems Engineering/Management Science/Financial Engineering/Operations Research depending on what it's called in your school. They're all similar venues of the idea of using optimization, simulation, and statistical techniques to improve the outcome of a given situation. The distinction I can make between them is that industrial is more manufacturing focused, information systems introduces you to a bunch of IT stuff (EG OOP, database, web scripting, python, etc...), management science is more business oriented, financial engineering (duh), applies itself to finance, and pure OR is just that. Get financial engineering if you can.

C) straight up computer science engineering. Exactly what it says on the tin. By the time you graduate, you'll definitely know your way around your programming language of choice. For the financial industry, the 3 main languages are C++ (quant funds such as DESCo and RenTec use this as their primary OOP language for its speed), Java (FIXFlyer uses this because Java can run on any machine), and VBA (Excel's built-in programming language, because everyone uses Excel in business).

D) Electrical Engineering. It has a sub-discipline called signal processing, which Elewyn Berlekamp used to set up the foundation for Medallion, aka the machine which is a license to print anywhere between 3.2 billion to 13 billion dollars every year for a group of around 1000 people (and that's being liberal).

E) Physics. Apparently quant funds like strong physics students. No idea why physics would be more appealing than math, though. Maybe because physics is just ridiculously difficult and you'd have to be a masochist to pick this major.

 

[NickTri]

Thanks for info. I know an undergraduate degree wont get me a quant job. But I am looking to have an undergrad major that will prepare me best for a MFE degree later on. I like the Computer Science/Applied Math double major because I am aware that quants will have to be gurus in C++ and Stochastic Calculus to be successful. Can you recommend any good schools that offer good degrees in CS and applied math.

Also I think choosing a Computer Science degree will be good for undergrad because then I can find a job between the years that I graduate and I look for a graduate school

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Good schools? Well, I had a friend at Lehigh University who did pure math BS/BA CS and got a job as a tester at MSFT, but you'd definitely be able to get to a good grad school if you did well.

I had another friend major in CS at UPenn and he got two interviews with Google and is working at Deloitte.

I had a third friend do her undergrad in FE at Columbia who is now doing i-banking at Barclay's (albeit also not intending to pursue a grad degree thus following FE any further...)

Overall, if you're planning to apply to grad school, so long as your GPA is solid/stellar at any decent undergrad school, you're good to go, but if you want to be on the safe side of getting into the best schools, then go for the best school you get into, so long as you don't rack up a mountain of debt going (read: do NOT go to NYU. No $ aid there. At all.)

 

[CGiuliano]

Hi,

I'm currently a junior at Cornell, so I can tell you pretty much anything you need to know. If you have anymore Cornell specific questions, ask away - which I suggest you do. This is a great school, but it's not for everyone.

Hands down best major for pre-FE:

Cornell Engineering : Operations Research and Engineering

Although it is an OR major, this is the M.Eng's pseudo-undergrad; it is actually offered by the same department. If you check out the requirements to enter the M.Eng program, they give you a list of courses that are in your major, and you will have completed and far exceeded them by junior/senior year.

If you want a more diverse education, you could just major in math focus on the probability and statistics stuff, and take cs and finance classes. The distribution in CAS is far more broad and you actually have to complete 100/120 credits in Arts and Sciences, but don't worry there are like 10^6 different classes to choose from. Note that Arts and Sciences has a 10% acceptance rate, as opposed to engineerings 20%.

Really it all depends on what you enjoy. Do you find your self only interested in math and science? Or, did you enjoy psychology and english also?

Good Luck.

P.S. Finding a job is nothing to worry about in either of the given cases. An engineering degree may seem to have more immediate benefits, but all the quantitative majors at Cornell are recruited by the truckload. The majority of the recruiting information packets say: looking for math/statistics/physics/engineering majors..blah blah blah.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Heh...congrats on Cornell, CG. I remember applying there to CAS and didn't get in. I shoulda applied to engineering across the board cuz I liked it a lot more than I do my current MS Stats. How much CS do they put you through in the Cornell OR dept?>

 

[CGiuliano]

Heh...congrats on Cornell, CG. I remember applying there to CAS and didn't get in. I shoulda applied to engineering across the board cuz I liked it a lot more than I do my current MS Stats. How much CS do they put you through in the Cornell OR dept?>

Intro in java, objected-oriented programming and data structures are technically the only requirements. Then almost all the upper level courses are CS based. Oh, and you have to take monte-carlo simulation. The rest is up to you to choose, but there is a second track offered in the same department: ISST. This track is loaded up with CS.

I'm actually not in engineering though.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

ISST stands for? Information Systems .... Technology?

That's really interesting actually, b/c at Lehigh, the upper level courses were all done in a programming language called AMPL, which was specifically created for optimization. It also seems monte carlo sim is all par for the course in any school. Which programming language did you use for yours?

On this end, we had to use Rockwell Software's ARENA program. It was horrible.

 

[CGiuliano]

I've actually only taken a C++ class, and now I'm taking an algorithm one. Next semester I'm doing data structures and intermediate C++, then senior year I'll take monte carlo and CS electives.

Here is the link for IScienceST:
Cornell Engineering : Information Science, Systems, and Technology

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Wow. Good stuff, dude. I checked out the OR page. Good luck to you!

 

[CGiuliano]

Thanks, and to you.

Out of curiosity any thoughts on Lehigh's M.S. Analytical Finance?

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Yes. One phenomenal professor (French redhead from MIT...pray she doesn't eat too much chocolate before lecturing), and you get to do a real-world FE practicum project while there, overseen by said phenomenal professor, who's also about to mint her first PhD quant.

Other than that, you have one stochastic calc course and one random processes course.

And beyond that, a bunch of finance garbage (aka half the program) in which the only reason you'll do poorly is that it's just so boring (this is not a warning to be taken lightly).

Programming is done in AMPL and MatLab, with Excel usage as well.

That stated...if you want to really do FE at Lehigh, this is what I'd recommend:

Do an M.Eng in Info Sys Engineering, and take the stochastic calculus course and fin opt course as electives.

Lehigh's IEOR department is great since nearly all of the non-manufacturing professors range from quirky to outright hilarious, and are all very intelligent, and there is no language barrier at all. Furthermore, its engineering reputation is held in very high regard among just about anybody, and has many alumni on Wall Street, and a couple of very successful ones, but none quants.

Two names to drop for you:

Joe Perella
George Kledaras (worked an internship for him...he's pure IT on the finance end, but my career prospects rocketed because of it)

If you're going here, make heavy use of the alumni network. There is no recruiting/placement. Though odds are, with your Cornell OR background, you won't need much help.

Edit: That stated, aside from the active placement issue and perhaps proximity to NYC, from what I see of Rutgers's courses in the MSMF, I'd say that if Lehigh could structure in a couple of good C++ courses (they have the professor to teach it!) in there, it'd be better than Rutgers's program.

 

[Roger Trimble]

Yes. One phenomenal professor (French redhead from MIT...pray she doesn't eat too much chocolate before lecturing)

What happens if she eats too much chocolate before lecturing?

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Try your hardest to keep up.

 

[chaoticrambler]

To OP:

Do not think too much about MFE while you still haven't started your bachelor's degree yet.

Seriously, it is way too far in the future and you have too much to learn before you even realize what you want to do.

I advice is to follow your heart right now, and get a traditional degree than any fancy schmancy IE-OR/Finance thing.

My advice would be to choose any of the following:

Applied Math, Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical/Aerospace engineering, Physics.

Any of the above will give you a very solid background in math and whole lot of applied experience and you will be ready for a master's in a wide variety of areas by the time you graduate.

 

[CGiuliano]

I would say you have a good two years to discover yourself. This would count as a strike against the engineering option, but if, on the other hand, in two years you want to switch into engineering... Good luck with that. I actually started in engineering (chemical), but immediately realized I liked math more than chemistry.

This is a bit of a scatter brained post, but ultimately I would say this:

Follow that which beckons (unless it's sociology), but keep in the back of your mind that success is composed of luck, talent and preparation. Only one of these is in your control.

 

[NickTri]

Do you guys think I have a good chance of getting into Cornell with those kinds of scores

 

[GoIllini]

Do you guys think I have a good chance of getting into Cornell with those kinds of scores

I'm not sure I would call it a good chance, but I would call it worth the effort. When I was applying to Cornell back when the SAT was out of 1600, the school aimed for 1400s+. Your score is the equivalent of a 1350.

Don't forget about the state schools. Wisconsin, Illinois, UT-Austin, Berkeley, and Georgia Tech all have excellent CS programs that beat most (if not all) of the Ivy League, and I'm pretty sure your can get into Wisconsin with your background.

As mentioned before, UPenn is a good school, but the five schools mentioned above have stronger placement profiles and cost $50K less in tuition (assuming you're out-of-state). The only difference between a UW-Madison graduate who gets hired at Deloitte and a UPenn graduate who gets hired at Deloitte is that one of them has less debt.

 

[CGiuliano]

Do you guys think I have a good chance of getting into Cornell with those kinds of scores

Well it depends allot on HOW you apply .

Start here:
How to get into Cornell - Cornell University - Epinions.com

^^ If you can find the original version of this article, it's actually got some pretty golden information in it. It was written by a graduate student who worked in admissions.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

As mentioned before, UPenn is a good school, but the five schools mentioned above have stronger placement profiles

Says who?

Here is some pointless text.

 

[chaoticrambler]

Illinois, Berkeley, and Georgia Tech engineering and CS kicks UPenn's arse any time.

Look at the rankings of engineering schools. UPenn, for all its Ivy-League awesomness doesn't hold a candle to the above 3.
UPenn has very small engineering departments (I know ME has like 20 faculty memebers...too small for a big impact)

UT-Austin and Wisconsin may lose out just because they are not so well known, but both of them are better than UPenn in any other criteria except branding.