Career goal is Quant Developer. Which job should I choose

[Four]

Thanks for the feedback. I think pretty much blew it. Turns out this was indeed a quant developer role because the first interviewer was a physicist who asked me a probability question about dice and expected outcomes. There was no way I could answer anything like that with my limited discrete math-and-2-semesters-of-calculus background. He then gave me the solution and ask me how to compute it and explain why the program would fail with a recursive solution. It was a struggle to say the least. Strangely, the job description only asked for Python, so I thought this was a purely software development position.

How long do big IBs usually take to get back to you with an answer? At my previous dotcom it was a week after the face-to-face before I heard back from them with a job offer. My impression is that the large banks work faster (especially for quant roles) and if you don't hear from them after 2-3 business days then you won't be getting an offer.

 

[mhy]

If they really like you, they tell you very quickly. Otherwise it takes longer.

 

[Four]

At the end of the phone interview the interviewer gave me a brief description of the format of the in-person interview, which seemed like a good sign. Then 2 business days later I received a call from HR to schedule the in-person interview.

At the end of the face-to-face on Monday the interviewer said "you should hear from us". Is that a good sign or just a nice way to say goodbye?

I had forgotten to send a thank you note to them yesterday (their policy is not to give out email addresses) but got in touch with HR who forwarded my notes to them today. Does a late thank you note affect anything?

 

[C S]

Thanks for the feedback. I think pretty much blew it. Turns out this was indeed a quant developer role because the first interviewer was a physicist who asked me a probability question about dice and expected outcomes. There was no way I could answer anything like that with my limited discrete math-and-2-semesters-of-calculus background. He then gave me the solution and ask me how to compute it and explain why the program would fail with a recursive solution. It was a struggle to say the least. Strangely, the job description only asked for Python, so I thought this was a purely software development position.

How long do big IBs usually take to get back to you with an answer? At my previous dotcom it was a week after the face-to-face before I heard back from them with a job offer. My impression is that the large banks work faster (especially for quant roles) and if you don't hear from them after 2-3 business days then you won't be getting an offer.

The job might not be quant developer (as vague as the term can be). They just want to see you are smart and able to take pressure. It's pretty common for people to study dice problems on Wall St, so the physicist type probably thought it was reasonable, even for a developer. I know a GUI developer that got nailed by some combinatorics problems. Welcome to the world of Wall St interviewing.

No job on Wall St where you interact with diverse groups (as the job description you cited said) is going to be "purely software development".

Don't make generalizations. I'm at a big bank and the speed of hiring depends on so many factors, some of which are things like is the MD of the group on vacation or not.

 

[C S]

At the end of the phone interview the interviewer gave me a brief description of the format of the in-person interview, which seemed like a good sign. Then 2 business days later I received a call from HR to schedule the in-person interview.

At the end of the face-to-face on Monday the interviewer said "you should hear from us". Is that a good sign or just a nice way to say goodbye?

I had forgotten to send a thank you note to them yesterday (their policy is not to give out email addresses) but got in touch with HR who forwarded my notes to them today. Does a late thank you note affect anything?

Was the physicist interview the face to face or the phone interview?

"You should hear from us" is typical "Don't call us, we'll call you", unless there was something particularly good in his/her tone that suggests they mean "You'll definitely be hearing from us!!"

Thank-you notes are overrated. Most people seriously are too busy to worry about whether they got a note later from someone they interviewed. If you send a note, make it interesting at least.

 

[Four]

The interview with the physicist was face-to-face. The phone interview and last in-person interview of the day was with an associate--the same level as the role I am interviewing for.

No, unfortunately I didn't hear any kind of special tone in the way he said "you should be hearing from us."

Hm... I hope the thank you notes were interesting. I know they're looking for someone familiar with UI development, so I tried to play up my past web development background in the thank you email, but it wasn't very original or anything :\

None of the interviewers tried to sell me on this position or the company or try to pitch how this job will be a good career move. I've heard this is a bad sign. Has anyone ever gotten a job offer if none of the interviewers tried to sell them the position during the interview? They didn't elaborate on the job either, so I still don't know exactly what the responsibilities of the position are.

 

[C S]

The interview with the physicist was face-to-face. The phone interview and last in-person interview of the day was with an associate--the same level as the role I am interviewing for.

No, unfortunately I didn't hear any kind of special tone in the way he said "you should be hearing from us."

Hm... I hope the thank you notes were interesting. I know they're looking for someone familiar with UI development, so I tried to play up my past web development background in the thank you email, but it wasn't very original or anything :\

None of the interviewers tried to sell me on this position or the company or try to pitch how this job will be a good career move. I've heard this is a bad sign. Has anyone ever gotten a job offer if none of the interviewers tried to sell them the position during the interview? They didn't elaborate on the job either, so I still don't know exactly what the responsibilities of the position are.

Your note is an interesting angle. Hopefully your tech background made an impression on them.

I think trying to sell the firm or position isn't really something people on Wall Street do very well. On the other hand, I don't know why you didn't ask questions if you were unclear on the position. Were you waiting for an invite?

 

[Four]

Your note is an interesting angle. Hopefully your tech background made an impression on them.

I think trying to sell the firm or position isn't really something people on Wall Street do very well. On the other hand, I don't know why you didn't ask questions if you were unclear on the position. Were you waiting for an invite?

He had actually given a 10 minute explanation already about what languages and technologies would be used for this role and the interview was supposed to be for only 30-40 minutes, so I got the feeling he wanted to move on to the technical questions and didn't try to ask any more. The questions were pretty tough, so it ended up taking an hour. Then after meeting the last interviewer I was mentally exhausted and didn't remember to ask him to describe the responsibilities of the role. I did ask what the ideal candidate for the position looks like. I think he seemed a little surprised by the question (maybe no one had ever asked that?) and said the ideal person needs to "wear many hats" because there are no distinct roles in the group and everyone is required to do everything.

 

[C S]

He had actually given a 10 minute explanation already about what languages and technologies would be used for this role and the interview was supposed to be for only 30-40 minutes, so I got the feeling he wanted to move on to the technical questions and didn't try to ask any more. The questions were pretty tough, so it ended up taking an hour. Then after meeting the last interviewer I was mentally exhausted and didn't remember to ask him to describe the responsibilities of the role. I did ask what the ideal candidate for the position looks like. I think he seemed a little surprised by the question (maybe no one had ever asked that?) and said the ideal person needs to "wear many hats" because there are no distinct roles in the group and everyone is required to do everything.

Ok, that's understandable. Anyway, my feeling is you should gauge your teammates. If your team is comprised of people that share your interests and motivations, and they seem to be happy, that's the biggest indicator. Otherwise, with this kind of "many hats" team, you could end up wearing the worst hats, especially since Wall St is very results-driven and isn't really into the "encourage employee growth" thing. The trick is to see if someone is wearing the worst hats and someone is wearing the best hats.

 

[Four]

Ok, that's understandable. Anyway, my feeling is you should gauge your teammates. If your team is comprised of people that share your interests and motivations, and they seem to be happy, that's the biggest indicator. Otherwise, with this kind of "many hats" team, you could end up wearing the worst hats, especially since Wall St is very results-driven and isn't really into the "encourage employee growth" thing. The trick is to see if someone is wearing the worst hats and someone is wearing the best hats.

Hmm... I didn't think of the downside to "wearing many hats". The interviewers seemed moderately happy but definitely stressed, but I guess that is part of the work. The physicist was pretty impatient and distracted by his phone but everyone else seemed to pay more attention. I'm not sure what the interviewers' motivations are. At this point it's not looking good since it's been 5 business days since the face-to-face interview. I called HR earlier on Monday and asked them to let me know whether the group has made a decision or is still deciding. It's late afternoon on Tuesday and I still haven't heard back. Do the big banks usually give an answer to job applicants or do they just ignore you if they don't want to hire you?

 

[C S]

Hmm... I didn't think of the downside to "wearing many hats". The interviewers seemed moderately happy but definitely stressed, but I guess that is part of the work. The physicist was pretty impatient and distracted by his phone but everyone else seemed to pay more attention. I'm not sure what the interviewers' motivations are. At this point it's not looking good since it's been 5 business days since the face-to-face interview. I called HR earlier on Monday and asked them to let me know whether the group has made a decision or is still deciding. It's late afternoon on Tuesday and I still haven't heard back. Do the big banks usually give an answer to job applicants or do they just ignore you if they don't want to hire you?

It's not just big banks. It's pretty common on Wall St to just ignore you once you're unimportant to them. I didn't think of this as a "Wall St thing" though. Do Silicon Valley tech companies really call you back or email you saying you didn't get the job? Wow!

 

[Four]

It's not just big banks. It's pretty common on Wall St to just ignore you once you're unimportant to them. I didn't think of this as a "Wall St thing" though. Do Silicon Valley tech companies really call you back or email you saying you didn't get the job? Wow!

I guess with the jobs that I had applied to previously when I called or emailed about an update I usually got a reply back, like a quick call or email saying "sorry the position has been filled". But I actually haven't been outright ignored. Those interviews were all with smaller tech companies, so maybe company policies were different. I guess the big banks must reject so many people that they don't bother with rejection calls!

 

[mhy]

I guess with the jobs that I had applied to previously when I called or emailed about an update I usually got a reply back, like a quick call or email saying "sorry the position has been filled". But I actually haven't been outright ignored. Those interviews were all with smaller tech companies, so maybe company policies were different. I guess the big banks must reject so many people that they don't bother with rejection calls!

When my team hires I think there are anywhere from 2 rounds of phone screens per position (40-60 candidates), then 1-2 onsite rounds (10 people left), and then 2 more final rounds with 2-5 people left. There may be less rounds if the position has been taking time to fill.

The number of rounds varies by team and firm. Some could have up to 6-7 rounds whereas some could be just 2. Generally if you go through campus recruiting there will be a superday at some point where you go on site from 9AM - 4PM and do interviews and group activities.

Unless it's the final round, I don't think it's unusual to get complete silence after the interview.

 

[Four]

My estimate is that there are generally anywhere from 40-80 first-round interviews / phone screens per position, then 10 in-person (2nd round), and then finally 3-5 final round (irrespective of division)

Unless it's the final round, I don't think it's unusual to get complete silence after the interview.

Ah, I see. Didn't realize there are three rounds for developer interviews, I'd thought it was just two. It makes sense now why HR hasn't responded to my call.

 

[C S]

Ah, I see. Didn't realize there are three rounds for developer interviews, I'd thought it was just two. It makes sense now why HR hasn't responded to my call.

I don't know where mhy got his numbers, but there's no "set" standard of how many rounds. Some banks have a ridiculous number of rounds/hoops, and sometimes it just depends on the team and the immediacy of the need.

It doesn't sound like anyone that senior interviewed you on-site. That would be a key indicator that was not a final round. Generally you have to meet someone at least director level (typically an MD) that has the final say, no matter how much everyone else likes you.

 

[mhy]

I don't know where mhy got his numbers, but there's no "set" standard of how many rounds. Some banks have a ridiculous number of rounds/hoops, and sometimes it just depends on the team and the immediacy of the need.

Right, I based my estimate off what I know from my team's hiring process and some of the teams immediately surrounding. I'll put a note in my original post. Thanks

 

[Four]

I don't know where mhy got his numbers, but there's no "set" standard of how many rounds. Some banks have a ridiculous number of rounds/hoops, and sometimes it just depends on the team and the immediacy of the need.

It doesn't sound like anyone that senior interviewed you on-site. That would be a key indicator that was not a final round. Generally you have to meet someone at least director level (typically an MD) that has the final say, no matter how much everyone else likes you.

Thank, this is great to know for future interviews. Looking back this did happen at my last job--the director of product development had introduced me me to the svp there after the interview (I was too clueless to realize what it meant at the time).

I've noticed some interesting differences between MO/BO and FO dev roles. I just had a phone screening for a MO credit risk position. They required a lot of language-specific knowledge, like how to write regex to slice a string and format the results in different ways and file manipulation, whereas at the FO developer interview all they wanted was for you to answer probability and algorithms questions fast.

 

[Four]

I received an email from HR and they said "I have forwarded your request for an update to the recruiter. Someone should reach out to you within a week or so. Thank you!"

Is there any possibility of advancing to the next round at this point or has it been too long and they will just be sending out a rejection? Sorry, I know I'm going at this ad nauseum. Hope they'll have an answer soon.

 

[Keith Tan]

congrats on a possible hiring opportunity!

 

[C S]

I received an email from HR and they said "I have forwarded your request for an update to the recruiter. Someone should reach out to you within a week or so. Thank you!"

Is there any possibility of advancing to the next round at this point or has it been too long and they will just be sending out a rejection? Sorry, I know I'm going at this ad nauseum. Hope they'll have an answer soon.

Who knows what's been happening... the prior interviews don't sound like they went too well, but assuming they weren't actually bad and somebody liked you, who knows. If the more promising candidates have gotten other jobs, I guess you still stand a chance to get another interview.