CMU MSCF (Pitts or NYC?) or Cornell MFE

[cesc]

Hi all,

As the deadline (Apr 15) for Cornell is coming, I really need to make a decision on these two programs. I would very much like to hear some advices from this forum.

Just a bit about my background. A final year EE undergrad from a top tier uni in Asia with a pretty good GPA and ECA records. Had almost no working experience on finance or FE.

I wish to choose a program that suits my own background. In terms of career, i wanna work in S&T, maybe trader or structurer; Market/Credit Risk might also be a good alternative for me if I could get offers from top banks. Location is not an issue for me: NY of course is the best, but HK, Singapore or Canada are also fine for me.

Here is some analysis I did for both programs, correct me if wrong:

CMU (currently placed at NYC campus):

• Positive: Under business school. Has probably the best Career Service among all FE programs. Excellent placement rate. NY campus good for networking. Good focus on programming, especially C++. Excellent curriculum structure. Good Tepper Alumni network worldwide.

• Negative: Non-Ivy League, I suppose not as reputable as Cornell among IBs in HK/Singapore/Canada. Non-FE practitioners (including big banks' HRs or hedge funds ?) probably never knew how good CMU is. [It seems that every year, the list of recruiting banks in Asia are almost the same, which gave me the feeling that "only these banks recognize CMU and it would be a lot harder to get into other banks/hedge funds". Correct me if i'm wrong]

Video conferencing teaching for NY campus students, less communication with profs/TAs. Less feeling of a campus.​

Cornell:

• Positive: Ivy League uni, share wider Cornell Alumni network worldwide. Smaller (40-50 ?) class size. teaching is all face-to-face. Last semester in NY.

• Negative: 1st year at Itacha, less chance of networking. Career Service not as helpful as CMU's (I may have big problems in securing an internship). My friend told me Cornell Alumni network makes more sense to Cornell undergrads than to 1/1.5-year master students.

The tuition fee for both programs are almost the same, so that's not an issue for me.

Currently, I'm a little bit leaning towards CMU. Since I don't have any related working experience, I believe a fantastic Career Service would be very important for me. Also, a focus in programming and C++ would probably give me a bit more confidence in the coursework (i'm from EE bg).

But I still wish to get some more advices from you guys, in case there is any mistake in my above analysis. Also i'm willing to know which one of the CMU campuses is better as for my background, Pittsburgh or NYC ? Is networking or learning some real stuff more important for MFE students ?

Thanks in advance for all your inputs.

 

[AaronPierce]

Definately CMU. It's worth the money.

 

[cesc]

@AaronPierce: Thanks for your reply. Can I ask why ? I'm a little bit worried about CMU's reputation in Asia compared to Cornell. Here, everybody knows ivy league, but not many know CMU.

 

[roni]

1) only 5 out of the 7 courses are taught in Pitts, the other 2 are taught in NY and if I'm not mistaken, they are taught by practitioners.

2) Honestly, I know many people from outside the US and non of them is familiar with CMU. However, it doesn't mean banks are not familiar with CMU. I think its a very good school.

3) I spoke with 3 current Cornell students and 1 alum and they told me that if I'm looking to enter the quant field, Cornell is not for me. I got the impression that the vast majority get trading or front-office positions.

4) I was also told that the recruiting process in Cornell is very good. Lots of companies come to Ithaca to recruit the students.

5) I also understand that there are many corporate events in Ithaca, so its good for networking

 

[Andy Nguyen]

What is your personality? Are you outgoing and like to go to social events? Are you comfortable around strangers or you would rather be in a group of people who speak your language?
CMU NYC vs Pitts is an old question. Many people pick NYU pointing to networking as #1 reason but I question whether they make the most of out if. True, the events are abundant but do you have the disciplines and times to take advantage of them?
The class at CMU is 5:30pm-9pm which happens to be during the same period of time of these events which are tailored towards working professionals hence after work. So being in NYC and never set foot outside of your classroom and apt defeats the whole "networking" point.

I know many Chinese students are very shy and never come up and introduce themselves at these events. Which is why I ask about the personality.

Are you a big city guy or someone who thrives on a campus settings?

 

[cesc]

@Andy: Yes, I agree with you. I guess I'm definitely not a networking guy but is probably someone in between those two types, that's the reason why I'm still hesitating on locations. Also, I don't think I will have tons of time to spend on events or networking, since my undergrad major seems nothing to do with FE and I probably need to learn a lot more than others.

But besides networking, is there any other distanvantages u think essential for Pitts campus ? I'm actually more worried of losing interview opportunities for internship and full-time. I know there will be those Super-days for big banks, which makes it no difference for Pitts or NYC students. What about other companies ? will I be rejected or simply lose a lot of interviews just because I'm not in NY ?

Thanks for your advice

 

[cesc]

@roni, sorry, what do you mean by "7 courses" ? (or you mean "5/7 of the courses" ?) I guess CMU offers more than 7 courses throughout 1.5 years if i'm not wrong.

I heard from one Cornell current student that not all FE students can successfully secure internship. I'm not sure if that is true. Did you hear anything about that ?

Yes, in Asia at least, Cornell is indeed a lot more reputable than CMU. That makes me hard to choose btw these two.

 

[Paul Mithouard]

You shall also ponder over whether you would relish an oportunity to stay in the US in the long term. In that case, if I were you I would go to CMU.
Otherwise, I would go to Cornell which has a worlwide recognition (even in Europe where I am from), and particularly strong curriculum (I contacted a few alumn by the time intended to go there)

 

[roni]

@cesc
In every mini semester 7 courses are offered and 2 of them are in NY.

I spoke with a dec '10 Cornell alum and he told me that all of the students except one have jobs already( from the people he knows). I was also told by a current student that some students started looking late for internships so a small number of them ended up with non paid internships... the alum didnt say anything about students with no internships.

Ask yourself what you want to be... Quant? choose CMU as the chances that you become a quant through CMU are higher.
You want to be a trader or get a front desk positions? choose Cornell as many of Cornell's grad end up in these positions.

 

[Paul Mithouard]

or choose NYU :D

 

[roni]

@Paul Mithouard
Is NYU popular in Asia? I'm not so sure about this...

 

[Paul Mithouard]

@Paul Mithouard
Is NYU popular in Asia? I'm not so sure about this...

I do not know. I am from Europe. But at least it is well-known

 

[yjt]

I think NYU is more popular than CMU in Asia, if your definition of popular is many people have heard of it.

About the point that 2 out of 7 courses are taught in NYC, I thought it was professors and TAs would fly to NY campus for 2 out of 7 weeks every term? I could be wrong tho but I think I read that somewhere on the web...

I talked to a few CMU students this week and found out that Pitts students actually need to travel to NYC for interviews quite often. Someone I talked to that secured an internship rather early still had to go 3 times and he mentioned that quite a few are still doing that now.

One thing I wanna remind you is that .. just because you are not very good at socializing now does not mean you should just give up on that for the rest of your life. If you know it is your weakness and you are still young, maybe you should consider giving yourself a little push to become more socialable which will def benefit you in the long run.

 

[cesc]

@yjt
you get admitted as well ? which campus are u in ?

so you would prefer NYC ? it seems to me that Pitts campus has pretty good placement rate, i'm not sure if NYC is better. I'm pretty curious if there is any stats available comparing these two campuses .

 

[mfegrad]

In every mini semester 7 courses are offered and 2 of them are in NY

Ask yourself what you want to be... Quant? choose CMU as the chances that you become a quant through CMU are higher.
You want to be a trader or get a front desk positions? choose Cornell as many of Cornell's grad end up in these positions.

disturbingly incorrect on both points.

in every mini, four to five courses are offered, and two of the seven lectures for each class are given in new york.

as for the trader/front office thing...no. please don't spread misinformation.

 

[yjt]

I got in the NY Campus. I don't think there is much of a difference in terms of placement stats between the two campuses. If you want to work in NY upon graduation, NY seems to be a better fit cuz from what I understand, the NY campus gets a majority of their offers locally.

As for school reputation/recognition, CMU is far behind at all the locations you listed for sure.

 

[roni]

disturbingly incorrect on both points.
in every mini, four to five courses are offered, and two of the seven lectures for each class are given in new york.

This is what I got about a month ago from a current CMU student " the professors come to NYC 2 out of the 7 lectures". I guess by lectures he meant meetings... my misunderstanding.

as for the trader/front office thing...no. please don't spread misinformation.

What kind of misinformation? I spoke with 4 Cornell students, and according to them, the vast majority of Cornell students get trading/front office jobs...

 

[AlexandreH]

This is what I got about a month ago from a current CMU student " the professors come to NYC 2 out of the 7 lectures". I guess by lectures he meant meetings... my misunderstanding.

What kind of misinformation? I spoke with 4 Cornell students, and according to them, the vast majority of Cornell students get trading/front office jobs...

I did not know it is common to get a trader position straight out of MS. I thought you would have to go into a trader assistant position first. Maybe someone with experience in this can give us some information (are some programs better fitted for specific positions? Can you get a trader position just out of MS? if not, how many years as Trader Assistant? what is the work like? pay?...)

 

[ahu]

its hard to say. take a look at placement stats. it is my understanding that cmu uses the standards b-schools use to report employment stats(if that really means anything at all)

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I have talked to Rick Bryant (CMU MSCF director) at length about their placement stats and here are a few things to keep in mind

• The stats do not include part-time students
• The full-time stat is complied by Tepper Business School and released in Oct, since their MBA students graduate in May. This is why the latest full-time report available currently is from Dec 2009 class. You have to wait till Oct 2011 to see full-time report of Dec 2010 class
• The internship/placement for 2010 are updates by the program using their own survey. This is not as comprehensive as the full-time updates done by the Tepper. The program will release their own update in April.