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just listen to goillini... srsly, one has way better chance to break into wallstreet from local college such as cooper union than gatech
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COMPARE Master Programs Comparison: Which quant program to choose?
- Thread starter aksrandhawa
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Any courses in CS department for sure, I have exchanged there for a half year and been the TA for QCF students in a course.
I have to say it's a tradeoff between these two programs. It's the truth that Columbia provides a better location and more potential job opportunities, but you might not be able to train yourself to be the person you want to be, like with solid skills in programming. If you investigate more through Linkedin about MSOR graduates, or communicate a little bit with one of them, you would easily find that more going to consulting industry or others rather than financial, especially developer or quant at hedge funds. One serious problem you need to note is that, too many similar programs in Columbia, implies too many competitions with your schoolmate for limited career service.
And according to my experience, (sorry to say) top financial firms would indicate their positions only open to MSFE students. You may also find lots of candidates in MSOR are transferred from MSFE failed applicants as well.
It's right that Georgia Tech is not as big name as Columbia, but why not build yourself a solid background for the person you want to be first? And I do believe the cost (tuition) is much lower in GT.
I know the shortage of QCF is its finance branch. But it doesn't matter if you just want to be a software engineer in hedge fund. I'm sure they won't test you anything in finance, based on my former interview for this position in JaneStreet.
Hello! I am currently a Masters of Engineering student at Lancaster University, Class of 2015. I have applied to 8 universities for the MQF/MFE programme for Fall 2015. My profile is as follows:
GRE: 319 Q165 V154
CGPA: 62%, 3.0
TOEFL: 106
Excellent extra curricula, 3 internships, 3 good projects (one fully funded by Mitsubishi Electric).
Very good at C/C++, Java certified
I have applied to universities that are rather safe/moderate for my profile and I have received acceptances from 3 univs so far.
1. SUNY Buffalo
2. Singapore Management University
3. Boston University
I am having a tough time picking one of the three. BU is extremely expensive and I am not sure if it is worth the investment for somebody from a middle class family like me. SUNY B and SMU both have a good course structure and nominal fee. Could you please help me select! Job scenario is one of the main criteria.
Please reply ASAP.
Regards
GRE: 319 Q165 V154
CGPA: 62%, 3.0
TOEFL: 106
Excellent extra curricula, 3 internships, 3 good projects (one fully funded by Mitsubishi Electric).
Very good at C/C++, Java certified
I have applied to universities that are rather safe/moderate for my profile and I have received acceptances from 3 univs so far.
1. SUNY Buffalo
2. Singapore Management University
3. Boston University
I am having a tough time picking one of the three. BU is extremely expensive and I am not sure if it is worth the investment for somebody from a middle class family like me. SUNY B and SMU both have a good course structure and nominal fee. Could you please help me select! Job scenario is one of the main criteria.
Please reply ASAP.
Regards
Daniel Duffy
C++ author, trainer
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Have you looked at UK?Hello! I am currently a Masters of Engineering student at Lancaster University, Class of 2015. I have applied to 8 universities for the MQF/MFE programme for Fall 2015. My profile is as follows:
GRE: 319 Q165 V154
CGPA: 62%, 3.0
TOEFL: 106
Excellent extra curricula, 3 internships, 3 good projects (one fully funded by Mitsubishi Electric).
Very good at C/C++, Java certified
I have applied to universities that are rather safe/moderate for my profile and I have received acceptances from 3 univs so far.
1. SUNY Buffalo
2. Singapore Management University
3. Boston University
I am having a tough time picking one of the three. BU is extremely expensive and I am not sure if it is worth the investment for somebody from a middle class family like me. SUNY B and SMU both have a good course structure and nominal fee. Could you please help me select! Job scenario is one of the main criteria.
Please reply ASAP.
Regards
Nope, I haven't. I do not want to study in the UK because of the strict and unfriendly policies and permits for international students. You are literally asked to leave the country as soon as you graduate. I wish to work at the place where I can work after my MQF/MFE programme. That is why availability of jobs options for international students is the major thing.
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Wise man. The immense intake of middle-class internationals into UK university programmes is undoubtedly one of the biggest scams in capitalistic academia. If you're a citizen of a country outside of the Eurozone, you might as well pack your bags upon completing your programme.
Of course, this deplorable situation is fundamentally tied to the abolition of the post study work visa. What a marvellous man, that David Cameron!
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I would think SUNY would be a better choice than the school in Singapore, but I don't have any facts for that. Would you rather work in the U.S. or Singapore?
From my experience applying to finance positions in south east asia, they usually only chose candidates that spoke the native language, even though I'm sure most of business is done in English.
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Could someone elaborate on why it's hard to find a job or get a visa after graduation in the UK? (for international students) I got an offer from UCL in their FRM programme and would greatly appreciate your comments
Evan.. I think I am driven towards the US, mainly because of the variety of job opportunities offered by the country. I have applied to some other unis in the US and I am awaiting their decisions. But from what I hear, the Asian market for financial services is thriving, and so is Singapore. And also SMU is way cheaper than most unis in the States. Which is why I'm considering it. Unless I'm hit by an irrefutably amazing offer from the US unis, Singapore would be on the list.
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@sidg , Thanks for the info. I've wanted to work in finance in south east asia since UG, but it was a challenge getting internships due to language barrier they created. I'll have to look into the SMU, that seems interesting. At any rate, I agree with you, it is booming over there and if you get there in time you probably will get a slice of the pie.
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Hi,
I have been struggling to decide between the options at hand which for me are - Columbia MSFE or GaTech QCF vs IIM Bangalore or IIM Calcutta MBA. This is similar to a thread by Nanda started in 2012, but since the market and immigration policies have changed immensely since then, I was hoping for a fresh perspective.
Brief profile: -
B.Tech Chem. Engg - IIT Roorkee (9.07/10) - 2015
Goldman Sachs Prop Accounting - IT Analyst (22 months)
Tech lead at my own non-fin related startup (6 months)
Good Analytical and IT skills. Few math courses at IIT and fairly confident in my ability to learn new math concepts. CFA Level 1 cleared and appearing for Level 2 in June.
Based on the the information I could gather from the recent grads in the above schools, I can see the following points emerge
MFE programs in the US:
Pros :-
1. International exposure
2. Desk quant roles are open in banks and buy side firms which essentially might not exist in India. These in my view are the best opportunity to earn more and create wealth employing math and programming in finance and hence are lucrative to me.
Cons :-
1. Could not gather information on what percentage of ppl actually land these roles and if not, what other prospects exist to work in the Front Office?
2. Loan amount (110k USD for columbia) has to be collateralized by residential property and places a huge burden on the co-borrower in case things go south.
3. No information on the career growth and compensation growth in 5-10-15 years in a MO/BO or Quant Research role which seems to be the average role the class is going to.
MBA from IIM's
Pros :-
1. Cheaper in terms of fees. (43k USD for 2 years)
2. Very good career services. 100% placements irrespective of economic downturns
3. Very well recognized in India and SE Asia
4. Broader range of career options
Cons:-
1. Quant finance roles are almost non-existent in India currently
2. No info on whether an IIM B/C brand would be more valuable in a front office role in HK/SGP than a Columbia MFE
I do not have a first hand exposure to quant but going by the course structure I feel I would like it. I would definitely want to have a career in Finance and a role that is *NOT* predominantly IT. I don't see myself coding in 10 years time.
A few recent grads I spoke to, were of the view that Data Science and ML in a proper tech firm has a better long term growth and wealth creation prospect than a quant role in a bank.
Also, Owing to the immigration hassles being created, and a desire to keep my parents close in their old age, I do not see myself spending longer than 10-15 yrs in the states, unless a way opens up to make them move with me and not on a 6 month B2 visa.
Given the current market scenario, immigration issues and the significant loan exposure, what are the realistic chances of landing a front office Quant job? If not, what are the career growth options like in the jobs that are prevalent?
I would love to hear more views, opinions and experiences from alumni and current students on which of the above options will help me in the longer term (10 years down the line).
I have been struggling to decide between the options at hand which for me are - Columbia MSFE or GaTech QCF vs IIM Bangalore or IIM Calcutta MBA. This is similar to a thread by Nanda started in 2012, but since the market and immigration policies have changed immensely since then, I was hoping for a fresh perspective.
Brief profile: -
B.Tech Chem. Engg - IIT Roorkee (9.07/10) - 2015
Goldman Sachs Prop Accounting - IT Analyst (22 months)
Tech lead at my own non-fin related startup (6 months)
Good Analytical and IT skills. Few math courses at IIT and fairly confident in my ability to learn new math concepts. CFA Level 1 cleared and appearing for Level 2 in June.
Based on the the information I could gather from the recent grads in the above schools, I can see the following points emerge
MFE programs in the US:
Pros :-
1. International exposure
2. Desk quant roles are open in banks and buy side firms which essentially might not exist in India. These in my view are the best opportunity to earn more and create wealth employing math and programming in finance and hence are lucrative to me.
Cons :-
1. Could not gather information on what percentage of ppl actually land these roles and if not, what other prospects exist to work in the Front Office?
2. Loan amount (110k USD for columbia) has to be collateralized by residential property and places a huge burden on the co-borrower in case things go south.
3. No information on the career growth and compensation growth in 5-10-15 years in a MO/BO or Quant Research role which seems to be the average role the class is going to.
MBA from IIM's
Pros :-
1. Cheaper in terms of fees. (43k USD for 2 years)
2. Very good career services. 100% placements irrespective of economic downturns
3. Very well recognized in India and SE Asia
4. Broader range of career options
Cons:-
1. Quant finance roles are almost non-existent in India currently
2. No info on whether an IIM B/C brand would be more valuable in a front office role in HK/SGP than a Columbia MFE
I do not have a first hand exposure to quant but going by the course structure I feel I would like it. I would definitely want to have a career in Finance and a role that is *NOT* predominantly IT. I don't see myself coding in 10 years time.
A few recent grads I spoke to, were of the view that Data Science and ML in a proper tech firm has a better long term growth and wealth creation prospect than a quant role in a bank.
Also, Owing to the immigration hassles being created, and a desire to keep my parents close in their old age, I do not see myself spending longer than 10-15 yrs in the states, unless a way opens up to make them move with me and not on a 6 month B2 visa.
Given the current market scenario, immigration issues and the significant loan exposure, what are the realistic chances of landing a front office Quant job? If not, what are the career growth options like in the jobs that are prevalent?
I would love to hear more views, opinions and experiences from alumni and current students on which of the above options will help me in the longer term (10 years down the line).
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As an IIMB alum who's considering an MFE soon, I think I'm in a position to comment on this.
Why not both? The MBA first and then the MFE. In my personal experience, an MBA from a top B-School in India (A/B is better) is really really valuable. It does add about 3 years to your overall career timeline (2 years of the MBA plus a year of work to ease the financial pressure a little), but in my opinion it's totally worth it. This is my list of Pros/Cons,
Pros:
1) Job security ++ especially if things go wrong and you have to come back to India. Also, the understanding that quant jobs are non existent is not true. They are competitive, but going by your profile you should have no problems getting through the door to interview at the least. I work in a BB quant role myself.
2) Significant value addition to your MFE application. Some schools (Berkeley etc.) give a lot of weightage to your overall experience.
3) The crème de la crème at IIM is a lot more mature than the one at the top UG colleges (I went to BITS Pilani). I've an overwhelming number of contacts across the world due to this and some very close friends too. Learnt a lot from my peer group.
4) The opportunity to explore other careers like Management Consulting if you should wish to. Can always come back to Fin if you don't enjoy it as much.
Cons:
1) It's very tough to get a good GPA at the IIMs, though perhaps okay to assume that you'll do well on the quant/finance courses which you should highlight on your resume.
2) Time. Arguable that in that total time period an MFE plus work-ex might be a better option if you know for sure you want to work in a quant fin role perhaps in the US.
It does ultimately come down to the person in question though, if you like networking and a generalist idea of business (which for me was invaluable, YMMV) IIM is a no-brainer.
Why not both? The MBA first and then the MFE. In my personal experience, an MBA from a top B-School in India (A/B is better) is really really valuable. It does add about 3 years to your overall career timeline (2 years of the MBA plus a year of work to ease the financial pressure a little), but in my opinion it's totally worth it. This is my list of Pros/Cons,
Pros:
1) Job security ++ especially if things go wrong and you have to come back to India. Also, the understanding that quant jobs are non existent is not true. They are competitive, but going by your profile you should have no problems getting through the door to interview at the least. I work in a BB quant role myself.
2) Significant value addition to your MFE application. Some schools (Berkeley etc.) give a lot of weightage to your overall experience.
3) The crème de la crème at IIM is a lot more mature than the one at the top UG colleges (I went to BITS Pilani). I've an overwhelming number of contacts across the world due to this and some very close friends too. Learnt a lot from my peer group.
4) The opportunity to explore other careers like Management Consulting if you should wish to. Can always come back to Fin if you don't enjoy it as much.
Cons:
1) It's very tough to get a good GPA at the IIMs, though perhaps okay to assume that you'll do well on the quant/finance courses which you should highlight on your resume.
2) Time. Arguable that in that total time period an MFE plus work-ex might be a better option if you know for sure you want to work in a quant fin role perhaps in the US.
It does ultimately come down to the person in question though, if you like networking and a generalist idea of business (which for me was invaluable, YMMV) IIM is a no-brainer.
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Thanks for your insights crossbowman. The reason I didn't consider an MBA+MFE option was
1. The extra time, money and opportunity cost
2. Since I already have an admit I thought it won't add much if quant fin is the field I decide.
My plan if I do stay back in India is to leave Quant Fin entirely and try to crack a FO Role in Bombay or a Mgmt Consulting role. Basically somewhere where client dealing is involved. These careers in my view offer a steeper growth trajectory.
As for quant being non existent in India what I meant was the opportunities when compared to NY were quite few. Also, since long term immigration is not something feasible, it's actually an either/or choice for me now hence I didn't consider both.
I'm just curious but would you have any data on
1. How many roles in SE Asia FO are open for IIM ABC grads? Since that seems to be a logical place for a quant to land up as well if things don't pan out in the US.
2. What do you think about an MBA from the US 5-6 years into your career?
1. The extra time, money and opportunity cost
2. Since I already have an admit I thought it won't add much if quant fin is the field I decide.
My plan if I do stay back in India is to leave Quant Fin entirely and try to crack a FO Role in Bombay or a Mgmt Consulting role. Basically somewhere where client dealing is involved. These careers in my view offer a steeper growth trajectory.
As for quant being non existent in India what I meant was the opportunities when compared to NY were quite few. Also, since long term immigration is not something feasible, it's actually an either/or choice for me now hence I didn't consider both.
I'm just curious but would you have any data on
1. How many roles in SE Asia FO are open for IIM ABC grads? Since that seems to be a logical place for a quant to land up as well if things don't pan out in the US.
2. What do you think about an MBA from the US 5-6 years into your career?
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For a front office role in Bombay or a Management Consulting role with MBB (and with your profile you should be able to get interviews to a reasonable degree of certainty), you should seriously consider B. B places around 50/400 in consulting and around 20 in top finance roles in Mumbai some of which pay around 80-120k USD including bonuses.
From an immigration perspective an MBA now would be more like hedging your bets imo, if the situation changes you should be able to reconsider an MFE or another MBA a few years down, as you said.
I know that A places more people than B in South East Asia, I know maybe 4-5 people from our batch who were able to land internships in trading roles in HK.
I think it boils down to where you want to settle in the long term to be honest, if it’s the US go for an MFE. If it’s India or if you’d like to defer the decision, go to B.
From an immigration perspective an MBA now would be more like hedging your bets imo, if the situation changes you should be able to reconsider an MFE or another MBA a few years down, as you said.
I know that A places more people than B in South East Asia, I know maybe 4-5 people from our batch who were able to land internships in trading roles in HK.
I think it boils down to where you want to settle in the long term to be honest, if it’s the US go for an MFE. If it’s India or if you’d like to defer the decision, go to B.
I am an IIM C alum (2017) and going to UCB MFE in Spring 2019.
I can tell you that it is highly unlikely that you will get a FO quant job from an IIM. It doesn't matter whether it is A or B or C. IIM A/B/C used to place people in Hong Kong/Singapore, but the situation has changed now. Few quant roles which come for recruitment are mid-office/back-office, one of them being GS Strats (Bangalore). The FO roles are mostly in IBD and PE in Mumbai, but the number is very less. Only 5 or 6 people out of 450 get those coveted roles.
But if you want to go into management consulting, then IIM A/B/C is a good option. Around 40 people from our batch got into MBB.
So if you want a quant job, go to Columbia MSFE/Gatech QCF
If management consulting, then go to IIM B/C.
I can tell you that it is highly unlikely that you will get a FO quant job from an IIM. It doesn't matter whether it is A or B or C. IIM A/B/C used to place people in Hong Kong/Singapore, but the situation has changed now. Few quant roles which come for recruitment are mid-office/back-office, one of them being GS Strats (Bangalore). The FO roles are mostly in IBD and PE in Mumbai, but the number is very less. Only 5 or 6 people out of 450 get those coveted roles.
But if you want to go into management consulting, then IIM A/B/C is a good option. Around 40 people from our batch got into MBB.
So if you want a quant job, go to Columbia MSFE/Gatech QCF
If management consulting, then go to IIM B/C.
Yep. IIMB alum here.
For quant roles in USA (with no hope of Green Card in this lifetime):
Columbia MSFE >> GATech >> IIM B/C
For much better career opportunities long-term, both in quant and in MBB:
IIM B/C followed by UCB MFE (they have very strong preference for IIT/IIM grads with relevant finance work experience)
For Finance PhD in USA:
IIM B/C gets you into top 10 Finance PhD programs.
Columbia MSFE probably into top 20-50
GATech probably in 50-100 range.
From long-term perspective:
Most of my IIMB batchmates are earning in crores in India. I made a huge blunder by coming and doing PhD in USA. Stuck in USA with no hope of going back.
For quant roles in USA (with no hope of Green Card in this lifetime):
Columbia MSFE >> GATech >> IIM B/C
For much better career opportunities long-term, both in quant and in MBB:
IIM B/C followed by UCB MFE (they have very strong preference for IIT/IIM grads with relevant finance work experience)
For Finance PhD in USA:
IIM B/C gets you into top 10 Finance PhD programs.
Columbia MSFE probably into top 20-50
GATech probably in 50-100 range.
From long-term perspective:
Most of my IIMB batchmates are earning in crores in India. I made a huge blunder by coming and doing PhD in USA. Stuck in USA with no hope of going back.
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Thanks a lot for your insights guys. Just to clarify by front office roles in India I do understand that these won't be quant roles and I am taking IB+PE and mgmt Consulting roles to mean FO. The reason for this is the exposure to the respective businesses they provide vis-a-vis something like a Quant working in Risk. So In India I would be targeting these roles actively.
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From long-term perspective:
Most of my IIMB batchmates are earning in crores in India. I made a huge blunder by coming and doing PhD in USA. Stuck in USA with no hope of going back.[/QUOTE]
By this you're referring to people who stuck around in finance? Also, when did you graduate from IIMB if you don't mind sharing?
Most of my IIMB batchmates are earning in crores in India. I made a huge blunder by coming and doing PhD in USA. Stuck in USA with no hope of going back.[/QUOTE]
By this you're referring to people who stuck around in finance? Also, when did you graduate from IIMB if you don't mind sharing?
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Just an edit, I managed to get a scholarship and the course cost has come down to 60k. But most of the points made by @crossbowman and @TraderJoe still hold. From a pure 10 year horizon ROI perspective does an IIMC MBA still make sense?
On the immigration front, I would very much want to return to India owing to the GC situation but from my research QR roles in the investment side are very limited, probably a single team in BlackRock and a few small shops mainly into HFT.
On the immigration front, I would very much want to return to India owing to the GC situation but from my research QR roles in the investment side are very limited, probably a single team in BlackRock and a few small shops mainly into HFT.
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Hey guys! I was lucky enough to get into Princeton MFin, UCB MFE, and CMU MSCF (NYC) with a ~75% scholarship. I’m pretty sure of which one I’m going to accept, but I wanted to hear everyone’s opinions - what are pros and cons of each? Which would you take? What kinds of things should I take into consideration? Any and all advice is very appreciated!
