COMPARE Oxford MCF VS Oxford MMath Stats VS Imperial Math Fin VS LSE Fin and similar courses

[pepequantmaster]

Thanks @Quantapplication. In that case, curious to also seek your thoughts on why is the employment rate for Oxford MCF lower than Imperial? More prefer to further their studies?

 

[pepequantmaster]

Like I said, I think the primary reason is that US MFE programmes are generally under business school or taught jointly by several department (so students with weak math background can choose units that are not too math demanding) while Oxford MCF and Imperial MF are entirely taught by the math department and their course content is designed for math students.

The second reason might be due to the different undergrad system between UK and US (or more broadly speaking Europe and North America ). US undergrad students have incredible flexibility to choose units across different faculties and could have several majors. Majoring finance/econ/CS does not mean they did not have studied advanced mathematical content. I have seen some US/Canadian students majoring econ got offer from the two UK programmes and their unit choice include all essential math components for quant (analysis, probability, statistics, differential equations, ML...). But for UK students, it seems that i have only seen math/stats/physics (or joint degrees like math and cs or math and econ) students being admitted.

You could find below description from Imperial MF course specification: Degrees in Accounting, Economics, Finance, Business or Management with very little Mathematics content will not meet our entry requirements. https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im.../G1U4-MSc-Mathematics-and-Finance-2023-24.pdf; and for Oxford: Applicants should have a background in probability, statistics, ordinary and partial differential equations, linear algebra and analysis. They must demonstrate their aptitude for, and knowledge of, mathematics, particularly in the area of real analysis. MSc in Mathematical and Computational Finance | University of Oxford.

And do you think there is any benefit for MFE programmes to be under Business School? instead of math school and vice versa?

 

[bootstrap]

Like I said, I think the primary reason is that US MFE programmes are generally under business school or taught jointly by several department (so students with weak math background can choose units that are not too math demanding) while Oxford MCF and Imperial MF are entirely taught by the math department and their course content is designed for math students.

The second reason might be due to the different undergrad system between UK and US (or more broadly speaking Europe and North America ). US undergrad students have incredible flexibility to choose units across different faculties and could have several majors. Majoring finance/econ/CS does not mean they did not have studied advanced mathematical content. I have seen some US/Canadian students majoring econ got offer from the two UK programmes and their unit choice include all essential math components for quant (analysis, probability, statistics, differential equations, ML...). But for UK students, it seems that i have only seen math/stats/physics (or joint degrees like math and cs or math and econ) students being admitted.

You could find below description from Imperial MF course specification: Degrees in Accounting, Economics, Finance, Business or Management with very little Mathematics content will not meet our entry requirements. https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im.../G1U4-MSc-Mathematics-and-Finance-2023-24.pdf; and for Oxford: Applicants should have a background in probability, statistics, ordinary and partial differential equations, linear algebra and analysis. They must demonstrate their aptitude for, and knowledge of, mathematics, particularly in the area of real analysis. MSc in Mathematical and Computational Finance | University of Oxford.

I think in America & Canada, any serious econ student who's contemplating grad studies would study real analysis at least to the baby Rudin level.

 

[bootstrap]

And do you think there is any benefit for MFE programmes to be under Business School? instead of math school and vice versa?

Better career services, alumni network, industry connections etc.

Not that math/engineering departments cannot be great at such things as well, but business schools are kind of designed with the singular goal of helping their students find good paying jobs upon graduation.

If you want to satisfy your intellectual/research curiosity or challenge yourself to some highly rigorous curriculum, then a math/engineering program would more likely suit your taste.

There are always pros and cons to all these different programs. You need to weigh them against your own preferences to find the best fit.

 

[pepequantmaster]

I think in America & Canada, any serious econ student who's contemplating grad studies would study real analysis at least to the baby Rudin level.

yea, this is true... just checked...

 

[Quantapplication]

Thanks @Quantapplication. In that case, curious to also seek your thoughts on why is the employment rate for Oxford MCF lower than Imperial? More prefer to further their studies?

Imperial seems to have good industry connection, career service despite being under math school. If you go to LinkedIn, you may find many MF students find good internship despite having little prior experience. Oxford MCF is too theoretical and from what I heard from students in 2023-24 cohort, many students are overburdened by the curriculum and have no time to find an internship (and its location is also a disadvantage compared to imperial).

I'd think consolidating math and coding ability is good for the long run, and indeed the upper bound of MCF students is way higher. However those students typically are from very strong background (such as Oxbridge/US top 5 uni undergrad students) while the others might find it quite struggling.

For your second question, I think under business school does not necessarily mean better career service. There are good ones under math/engineering faculty and bad ones under business school. But it might give you more flexibility to choose your curriculum (though I think math/coding are still most important ones). In terms of career service and alumni network, I think it is still dependent on the school.

 

[pepequantmaster]

Thanks @Quantapplication . dropped you a pm if you dont mind!

 

[bootstrap]

Imperial seems to have good industry connection, career service despite being under math school. If you go to LinkedIn, you may find many MF students find good internship despite having little prior experience. Oxford MCF is too theoretical and from what I heard from students in 2023-24 cohort, many students are overburdened by the curriculum and have no time to find an internship (and its location is also a disadvantage compared to imperial).

I'd think consolidating math and coding ability is good for the long run, and indeed the upper bound of MCF students is way higher. However those students typically are from very strong background (such as Oxbridge/US top 5 uni undergrad students) while the others might find it quite struggling.

For your second question, I think under business school does not necessarily mean better career service. There are good ones under math/engineering faculty and bad ones under business school. But it might give you more flexibility to choose your curriculum (though I think math/coding are still most important ones). In terms of career service and alumni network, I think it is still dependent on the school.

Of course there's high variability between diff programs. I would assume Imperial Math & Fin's career services are light years ahead of Imperial Business School's (no offense to the latter).

But based on my experience with admission officers and conversations with former students so far, the MFE programs within business schools (the US ones at least) operate like a MBA-lite with a heavy focus on connecting students with potential employers. It feels like they structure their entire programs as a one-year long quant job interview bootcamp.

Each of us have to decide whether we prefer this over a math program or vice versa. It really depends on your interests and your needs.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

The first step to do the UK ranking will be underway soon. If everything goes according to plan, we will release our first ever UK ranking in March.
Even after doing the US MFE rankings for the past 15 years, it's still exciting to step into the unknown.
Hopefully, QuantNet will be a central place where you can find important information on the top US/UK programs.

 

[TheCheshireCat]

These are my personal rankings of the programs you mentioned:

1. Imperial MathFin
2. Oxford MCF
3. Oxford Masters in Statistics
4. Imperial Masters in Statistics
5. LSE Financial Mathematics
6. LSE Masters in Finance
7. LBS Masters in Finance

 

[Lukee]

These are my personal rankings of the programs you mentioned:

1. Imperial MathFin
2. Oxford MCF
3. Oxford Masters in Statistics
4. Imperial Masters in Statistics
5. LSE Financial Mathematics
6. LSE Masters in Finance
7. LBS Masters in Finance

Does anyone have any idea of how these compare to top US programs?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Check out the latest review for the Imperial program. Seems like good career service is the common theme there.

Imperial College London MSc Mathematics and Finance

Established in 1999, Imperial College London’s mathematics and finance master’s is one of the oldest programmes of its kind. Directors: Antoine Jacquier and Eyal Neumann.

quantnet.com

 

[kznil]

I received an offer from both Imperial MathFin and Oxford MCF, and I have to respond to Imperial by end of this Friday whether to take up their offer.

From what I understand, Imperial seems to have stronger industry connections and they actively help students secure internship placement during the last term of study, while Oxford does not.

May I know whether there are aspects of Oxford MCF which trumps Imperial MathFin which haven’t been mentioned in the thread? So far I am tempted to go for Oxford MCF but am a bit uncertain about future job prospects, especially with all the comments about better employability of Imperial MathFin graduates.

 

[demoralizer]

I received an offer from both Imperial MathFin and Oxford MCF, and I have to respond to Imperial by end of this Friday whether to take up their offer.

From what I understand, Imperial seems to have stronger industry connections and they actively help students secure internship placement during the last term of study, while Oxford does not.

May I know whether there are aspects of Oxford MCF which trumps Imperial MathFin which haven’t been mentioned in the thread? So far I am tempted to go for Oxford MCF but am a bit uncertain about future job prospects, especially with all the comments about better employability of Imperial MathFin graduates.

Has Oxford started releasing offers or it is that you approached them because of Imperial acceptance deadline?

 

[kznil]

Has Oxford started releasing offers or it is that you approached them because of Imperial acceptance deadline?

Hmm, I can’t be sure, I think perhaps the wave of offer hasn’t begun yet as I only see and know of 2/3 others who have gotten it. Perhaps the deadline plays a part

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I received an offer from both Imperial MathFin and Oxford MCF, and I have to respond to Imperial by end of this Friday whether to take up their offer.

From what I understand, Imperial seems to have stronger industry connections and they actively help students secure internship placement during the last term of study, while Oxford does not.

May I know whether there are aspects of Oxford MCF which trumps Imperial MathFin which haven’t been mentioned in the thread? So far I am tempted to go for Oxford MCF but am a bit uncertain about future job prospects, especially with all the comments about better employability of Imperial MathFin graduates.

Impressive. Congrats on getting offers from both Imperial and Oxford, @kznil
I only saw your Imperial timeline on the Tracker. You may consider adding the same for Oxford to attract more replies to this important query.
I would love to hear from recent Oxford grads who can comment on their career services.
@TheCheshireCat mentioned Imperial has better employment stats. Maybe he can share what he knows about Oxford as well.

 

[BigClout]

1. Imperial Math and Finance
2. Oxford MCF
3. Cambridge part III
4. Imperial RMFE
5. UCL MSc computational finance
6. LSE Math Finance

For my own knowledge, could I ask why Math and Fin is first, specifically compared to Oxford MCF and Imperial RMFE? I'd love to understand the context behind this.

 

[BigClout]

1. Imperial MathFin
2. Oxford MCF
3. UCL MCF
4. Imperial RMFE
5. LSE MathFin

Top 5 UK quant specific programs, based on likelihood and quality of quant jobs they place (from my own personal experience and research)

I've never seen anyone put UCL MCF so high. Could I ask specifically why it's above Imperial RMFE? Generally though, I'd like to hear the rationale for the rankings for my own application purposes.

 

[quanthopefully]

I've never seen anyone put UCL MCF so high. Could I ask specifically why it's above Imperial RMFE? Generally though, I'd like to hear the rationale for the rankings for my own application purposes.

i put it above rmfe because: smaller cohort, more selective, run in computer science department not a business school, industry placement, cheaper, more quantitative curriculum. Cant think of anything that would put rmfe above, other than maybe the imperial name but dont think it applies to the business school.

 

[abeeqt]

I also received offers from both imperial and Oxford and right now, I'm leaning towards Oxford, mainly because of reputation if I want to work outside of UK in the future. I also would really appreciate any info on employability, especially in terms of types of roles and their breakdown.

Risk.net mentions that at imperial, about 70% go on to work in banking and 10% in asset management, while the numbers are 35% and 51% respectively at Oxford. Could someone please shed some light on these two categories? I have no idea what to infer from this. My goal is to move from my current middle office/modelling background to sell side front office or buy side by improving my data science, machine learning skills.

Finally, regarding coursework, imperial has a much wider selection of electives, especially if you want to pick up computing skills, as there are currently only 2 courses that are computing-focused at Oxford, one in deep learning and one in C++.

I need to make the decision within the next 24 hours so any help is appreciated!