Rumor: Windows 8 Set for September Reveal

[KaiRu]

I've mentioned it above: correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this whole latest exchange of messages started on the topic of comparing native platform programming interfaces: POSIX etc. for Unix vs. Win32 and everything else that was considered as native API for Windows programming.

Yes, it was so. Until you tried to compare apples with oranges and brought .NET with MFC into discussion to say that it's completely new de-facto API and somehow and tried to compare XLib with WinForms. If you want to compare XLib with its counterpart don't tell me about MFC but use GDI+ for comparison. If you want to compare POSIX API use MS POSIX API and/or WinAPI and there is no need to bring .NET into discussion. And it's even better to come up with facts or own experience rather than "possibly broken / probabily incompatible" because that's all I see about so called Windows compatibility issues in this discussion so far. No honestly, all I have from this discussion is some woulda/shoulda/coulda about what could happen with Windows and developers about 5/10/15 years ago and how many books someone should read. I write code for both systems and my IQ doesn't drop by 30 points when I switch from my dev box back to my desktop - at least I hope so .

No - because your assumptions are mostly wrong. Especially "fast forward to now, and most of the code in Windows implementation is probably the same" part - how many pure-Win32 application are there in common use on Windows desktops these days?

I can't speak about all applications in the world but let me check on my desktop if you are that interested (still not sure what are you going to prove with that): Far (native) + Firefox (native) + Skype (native) + VLC (native) + VS2008 Express (native) + Cygwin (native) + I download free Kaspersky Antivirus tool every 2-3 weeks (native) + one more IDE(Java) + few games (native but scripts can be in C#/Lua - not sure about this). And your point is ?

And here is another example: in the hypothetical situation I've described above, Unix programmer would probably start learning APIs needed for his work from W. Richard Stevens APUE/UNP books, while Windows programmer would probably use Charles Petzold tome "Programming Windows" (excellent book, back at the time). Still even today, Linux programmer use exactly the same books for learning this stuff. What do you think - how relevant is Petzold book these days, how many Windows programmers had it read (and - don't get started about "Programming Windows Forms", the contents in this one is completely different)?

Lets stop with examples from hypothetical situations like woulda/shoulda/coulda and return back to facts. I haven't read Petzold and can't speak about all programmers in the world like you do but I've read Stevens and I've read Richter for programming with WinAPI/ Russinovich to learn about internals almost 10 years ago when Win2000 came out - both are valid and very useful these days.

 

[cgorac]

... I write code for both systems and my IQ doesn't drop by 30 points when I switch from my dev box back to my desktop - at least I hope so .

I never said something alike... It's certainly not my intention here to claim that any platform is "better" than other one, or that it's "stupid" to engage in development work on any platform - obviously Unix programming works better for me, but whatever gets the job done for anyone else is certainly fine with me. The whole point of my discussion is that Linux programming APIs are more stable than Windows programming APIs. I tried to present some arguments, I touched on times 15-20 years ago because I was there back at the time and I think I can draw some conclusions from my experience (for example, I used to know loads of people doing Win32 programming back at the time, and I don't know of anyone that uses Win32 only in his work nowadays). But obviously these and other arguments I've tried to cite don't seem appealing to you, and on the other side I don't buy your arguments either. So I guess we cannot progress much from this point onwards, but at least arguments we provided are there for others to eventually read, and compare with own experience.

I can't speak about all applications in the world but let me check on my desktop if you are that interested (still not sure what are you going to prove with that): Far (native) + Firefox (native) + Skype (native) + VLC (native) + VS2008 Express (native) + Cygwin (native) + I download free Kaspersky Antivirus tool every 2-3 weeks (native) + one more IDE(Java) + few games (native but scripts can be in C#/Lua - not sure about this). And your point is ?

Just to clarify here: Seems that you understood that I was pointing to difference between applications written to execute natively on given machine, and ones written to execute in some sort of virtual machine. I was however asking on applications that are written in Win32 API directly, and not using any sort of other Windows programming API (like MFC or .Net), or some higher-level toolkit like Qt or Gtk.

 

[KaiRu]

So I guess we cannot progress much from this point onwards, but at least arguments we provided are there for others to eventually read, and compare with own experience.

Yes, it looks so. I only hope we are not the only persons here who read all this stuff

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I do read the argument and enjoy enormously the thoughts and time you guys put into your post. So cheers