Rutgers MSMF Rutgers MSMF program placements

[Minsuk Chang]

admitted

 

[Ken Abbott]

MSMF in addition to MS in Stats seem like overkill. You'd be better off getting some experience instead.

Now is the worst time to be expecting program admins to be responsive. Wait a few days for the admissions crunch to be over with and try again.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I've talked to a couple of (international) students in the program, and they say the placements are very bad for them (that, most of them can't land a job here in the US and have to go back to their own countries). On the other hand, the Quantnet reviews + posts seem to suggest quite the opposite.

By its nature of the reviews, people with positive experience in the program (found internship/job) would be more willing to write a positive review. A lot of domestic students fall in this camp.
On the other hands, people who couldn't find job will write a negative review or worse, won't bother writing at all. A lot of international students fall into this camp.
As a result, you should keep this in mind when reading reviews. When we reach the critical mass of getting more reviews, it will be a lot more useful. At this stage, use your experience/feedback with/from current students, faculty and staff to gain some understanding of the program.

 

[Minsuk Chang]

Hi Ken Abbott, thanks for the reply.

One of the bigger reasons why I'm considering the second degree is because I only need to take one more semester to finish both programs. If I take only stats, I can finish a semester early, but I feel like I'd be in a better position in the job market with both degrees. (My understanding is that most quant positions also require the applicants to have a degree in some sort of financial math/engineering.)

Hi Andy Nguyen,

I understand. I have managed to arrange appointments with some of those people this week, if I hear anything new from the people, I'll share it here with the rest of the Quantnet.


Best,

MC

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Three words:

Voluntary. Response. Bias.

 

[myampol]

One of the bigger reasons why I'm considering the second degree is because I only need to take one more semester to finish both programs. If I take only stats, I can finish a semester early, but I feel like I'd be in a better position in the job market with both degrees.

It's interesting that Rutgers would grant you both degrees with only one extra semester of coursework. Would some of your courses get counted toward both degrees?

I ask this because a number of years ago I did both a Masters in Statistics and a Masters in Financial Math (simultaneously, in separate departments within the same college.) The two degrees, and their associated courses, were totally separate, with no overlap -- each program required 36 credits (12 courses), with each counting toward one degree or the other, not both. (Doing this didn't endear me to the registrar, whose systems weren't configured to handle a student doing two such degrees at the same time, but eventually everything got worked out.)

 

[Minsuk Chang]

myampol

Only one course gets counted for both degrees, merely because it's required in both programs. But then I have to take an extra class to fill its place. So, no course credit overlaps. I'm able to complete both of them with only "one" extra semester because I'm staying this summer at school to take 9 credits off the Stats program, and will be taking extra classes in each upcoming semesters to complete both programs. So technically, I'm taking two more semesters to complete both, and one of them is this summer. Also it's only 10 courses per program at Rutgers, so I think I'm four classes short of what you had to do.

Best,
MC

 

[Andy_B]

I'm considering a second degree at Rutgers MSMF (currently in Stats program)

It seems like the administrative staff are very unfriendly,
Carla (supposedly the careers person) finally replies after 5 emails and two unanswered phone calls in two weeks. Ana (the program admin) doesn't respond at all. The program director (Dr Feehan) doesn't respond either.

Hi Minsuk,

I'm surprised to hear you're having trouble contacting the program. Back in October, I sent emails to Rutgers, Columbia, Baruch, and NYU about visiting. Rutgers not only responded the fastest, but Ana (who I was emailing) was very expedient with her responses to subsequent emails, and everything about the visit I took seemed very coordinated (I met with Dr. Feehan, Ana, and Carla- they all had copies of my resume and had looked over it prior to our meeting). So my guess is that it is just an unfortunate time to email them.

 

[Minsuk Chang]

Andy_B

Hi Andy,

I was actually able to get a hold of them, but it took such a long time to get a response from them. I'm still waiting from Dr Feehan. It wasn't just email, I visited their offices but they were never there.

Anyways, which school did you decide to go?

Best,

Minsuk

 

[Andy_B]

Minsuk Chang,

Sorry about your luck (or lack thereof!). I committed to Rutgers pretty much the moment I was accepted. In November I visited Columbia and Rutgers on back-to-back days and felt that Rutgers matched my style better (more personalized, better choice of electives, more career-services oriented and less brandname oriented). I'll start their pre-MSMF program this August, and the actual program in September.

Best of luck!
Andy

 

[Minsuk Chang]

Andy_B

Alright, cool. I guess we'll be in same classes starting Fall. Let me know if you need any help settling in and stuff. I'll be here all summer.

Best,

MC

 

[Jose T]

Hi Minsuk,

If you want to message me, feel free. I am in MS Stats and MS Math Fin at Rutgers now which I think is what you're thinking of doing.

What Ken Abbott said about it being overkill is kindof true. Work experience is more valuable than more school after you've gotten a critical mass of schooling done. At least in my opinion, a Masters Degree relevant to the area you want to work in is a critical mass.

I justified it to myself b/c I did the majority of MS Stat at night before doing MSMF, so I was still only 2 yrs 'off' of full-time working. Now taking my umpteenth class, I tend think it was overkill for me even.

Prof Feehan and Carla and Ana are all nice folks. They're probably just busy. I don't believe Prof Feehan spends the majority of his time on campus, so try to show up during his 'office hours' which I think are posted on his door (and I think on the web too) and you'll probably be straight.

Re your question about placements - I have seen some of the international students have a hard slough of it. Most of the domestic students seem to be having good luck. I'm a domestic student, so my knowledge of the process for int'l students is limited. My experience has been good as I've posted elsewhere. If you have any other specific question, feel free to ask.

 

[Jose T]

oh by the way, if you do end up doing this, you need to talk to Prof Feehan about the residency requirement for the MSMF and square away whatever arrangement you end up making with the Stats director too. It should not be hard to do (it was fine for me), but make sure you don't get caught in a 'transfer credit' limitation situation (i.e. while you are classified as a Stats student, relevant MSMF courses may still count against transfer credit limitation of 12 credits).

 

[Minsuk Chang]

Hi Jose Thomas

Thanks for the reply. That is exactly what I'm trying to do. I just found out that current students also have to abide the application deadline for external applicants. So it looks like there'll be some complication. I was planning on taking the classes starting this fall. Do you know if it's possible to join the MSMF starting Spring? If I have to wait another year to apply, then there's no meaning of doing it.

I'll be more than half way done with my stats program after this summer (taking 3 classes), so I'm guessing the residency requirement will be cleared away.

Thanks,

Best,

MC

 

[Jose T]

Clearly, I offered to answer your question too quickly because I don't really know if that's possible or how it would work because four of the required courses are Fall-Spring tracks. I don't want to stir you wrong. Maybe they can work something out for you, given your situation? I'd talk it over them.

But also think about it this way. It's a pretty big commitment. It doesn't only 'cost' you one semester. You'll be taking almost twice as many courses as you would for just the MS Stats (I think you will actually be able to double count 1 or 2 of them, btw), which is expensive and the courses themselves are fairly time-consuming.

That time 'in-semester' could be useful in taking a lighter (and cheaper) course-load and trying to get some industry related experience, even if it is unpaid (though I imagine you could find something paid). If nothing else, the time could be spent networking at quantitative events in the city (which you will actually have time to go to, thanks to not taking a million MSMF classes). Also, I love RU, but the school does not exactly bring their A-game to the summer sessions, so I don't think loading a ton of your Stats courses into the summer is a great idea (I'm sure you'll do fine in the courses, but you're goal is to learn Stats not do well in courses).

I don't want to sound discouraging, especially since I did essentially the thing you're thinking about and don't regret it (I'm not a big regret kind of guy), but I'd give this some more thought to the point where you can really identify what the second master's degree is marginally going to do for you (i.e. given that you're shortly going to graduate with an MS in a related field anyway).

 

[Minsuk Chang]

Jose Thomas

Thanks for the reply. The deal with the summer classes is that the three classes I'm taking in the summer are all required classes and are taught by full-time faculty here. So I don't think that should be an issue. As a result, I'll only be taking one extra classes in each semester starting this fall. That shouldn't be a problem for me.

BUT I see what you're saying about the networking events. Although getting paid to work during the semester's not an option for me (as I'm an international) but I understand your point. At the moment I'm just hoping they'll work something out for me to join the program next Spring, so I can utilize the career services to get a meaningful internship next summer. I hear the career services is the highlight of the program, that the career services almost always get you at least 3-4 interviews.

Thanks for the tip Jose. I really appreciate it.

Best,

MC

 

[Jose T]

No problem. Best of luck to you.

Btw, since we go to the same school and are in (possibly two) same program, feel free to network with me personally:

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=17697183&trk=tab_pro

Just add me as a connection and send me a mail sometime about yourself and if I hear of anything good for you, I'll look you up. We all get contacted by recruiters from time to time for things that don't work for us personally or may come across something on a mailing list after we've landed somewhere ourselves.

It doesn't hurt to have another LinkedIn buddy!

 

[Minsuk Chang]

Jose Thomas

Thanks a lot, I added you as a connection.

Best,

MC

 

[myampol]

It doesn't only 'cost' you one semester. You'll be taking almost twice as many courses as you would for just the MS Stats (I think you will actually be able to double count 1 or 2 of them, btw), which is expensive and the courses themselves are fairly time-consuming.

That time 'in-semester' could be useful in taking a lighter (and cheaper) course-load and trying to get some industry related experience, even if it is unpaid (though I imagine you could find something paid).

Well, at the college where I did both MS Stats and MS Financial Mathematics (simultaneously!), the way that the tuition works, one only pays for four courses each semester -- so the fifth (and the sixth, for those of us who are totally crazy) are FREE. Of course, this arrangement only applies to in-state residents such as myself -- foreigners and people from other states don't get this benefit.

Now, the fact that I did the above while also holding a full-time job, THAT was certifiable lunacy...

 

[myampol]

Although getting paid to work during the semester's not an option for me (as I'm an international)

Although I am a US native who doesn't need to concern myself with these things, it is my understanding that foreign students are eligible to take (paying) off-campus internships of up to 20 hours per week after they have completed two full semesters in the USA. (During the summer and other times when school is not in session, they are eligible to work 40 hours per week.) I believe that such students are usually required to sign up for something called "Curricular Practical Training" (CPT) in order to make this arrangement work; that may require payment of tuition to your university to obtain academic credits in conjunction with such internship. At some schools I think they allow students to pay for just 1 credit for a semester- or summer-long internship, while I have heard that other schools insist that the student pay for the usual 3 credits (which I think is outrageous.)