When is it too late to start a quant career?

[RedPanda]

Hello all,

I am a newbie in this forum and would love to hear a piece of advise.

I have a PhD in Mechanical Engineering, but solid Math background. Now I dream of becoming a quant.
I am thinking about trying to get in MFE program. Do you think it could help me to get entry-level job after (I will be almost 35 with no working experience)? I have been trying to find a job now, but no luck so far.

Thank you.

 

[eng]

Hello all,

I am a newbie in this forum and would love to hear a piece of advise.

I have a PhD in Mechanical Engineering, but solid Math background. Now I dream of becoming a quant.
I am thinking about trying to get in MFE program. Do you think it could help me to get entry-level job after (I will be almost 35 with no working experience)? I have been trying to find a job now, but no luck so far.

Thank you.

It will not be too late. All depends on your circumstances. Good MFE program will get you into the financial industry. If you are ok with spending an extra year and some money, you could try it.

 

[RedPanda]

I do not see other way to get in finances, actually. It seems to me my main problem right now is the lack of experience. So I can not even try for entry-level position where knowledge of financial instruments is not required. All I hear from recruiters that in current environment entry-level means at least 2 years of relevant experience.
So, I am wondering if I manage to get in one of the top-5 MFE program, will it increase my chances to get a job with zero-zero-zero experience.

 

[RedPanda]

It will not be too late. All depends on your circumstances. Good MFE program will get you into the financial industry. If you are ok with spending an extra year and some money, you could try it.

Thank you, eng.
Do you think that if I get in and study well I will get a job very likely?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Early is better. Age is only good if it brings experience.
You should try to network first, talk to friends, relatives, anyone that may know someone working in finance.
You will be PhD+MFE at 37 with no experience. I'm not saying it will be impossible for anyone with that combo to break in.
Before you spend more time in school, how about getting some technical job in a back office?

 

[RedPanda]

Early is better. Age is only good if it brings experience.
You should try to network first, talk to friends, relatives, anyone that may know someone working in finance.
You will be PhD+MFE at 37 with no experience. I'm not saying it will be impossible for anyone with that combo to break in.
Before you spend more time in school, how about getting some technical job in a back office?

What kind of job are you referring to? What would be the title? So far, I 've been applying to every position from analyst to developer with no result.

 

[alain]

...with no result.

What does it mean "no result"? No interviews? No offers? No calls? where have you applied?

 

[TraderJoe]

What is your visa status?

The three main reasons why people are having difficulty in getting Finance jobs are:
1. No formal education in Finance (or degree from very low-ranked school)
2. No relevant work experience in Finance
3. Needs H1-B visa sponsorship which many companies are not willing to do.

Which of these applies to you?

 

[RedPanda]

What does it mean "no result"? No interviews? No offers? No calls? where have you applied?

Basically, I am applying to every position I see on web-sites such as dice. So far, I have only had three interviews. I must admit I failed the first one, though it was extremely simple (one of the top IB banks). But it was my first interview ever and I did not know what to expect and how to react. As for the other two, I was definitely under-qualified, they were looking for someone really experienced.

 

[RedPanda]

What is your visa status?

The three main reasons why people are having difficulty in getting Finance jobs are:
1. No formal education in Finance (or degree from very low-ranked school)
2. No relevant work experience in Finance
3. Needs H1-B visa sponsorship which many companies are not willing to do.

Which of these applies to you?

The first two
But all I want is some kind of very-entry level job. Is it completely impossible without financial background nowadays?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You should really get right on the reading list we have and fill your finance knowledge void.
The problem i believe is that people don't want to give you a job and have to train you on what an option, swap is.
Get the interview books from our list. A lot of banks ask these same questions over and over so once you are familiar with Hull's material, get used to Heard on the Street type of brain teasers, your performance on the interviews will be much better.

Get to it Master reading list for quants, MFE students

 

[TraderJoe]

The first two
But all I want is some kind of very-entry level job. Is it completely impossible without financial background nowadays?

Well, in this case the solution is easy. There are two possibilities.
A good MFE degree (Top 5 school) will give you the education to prepare you for the technical interviews and will also give you an internship which will provide some industry experience.
Alternatively, you can just read the relevant books from the quantnet reading list, specially the five books on preparing for interviews. Specially see Joshi's book on preparing for quant interviews. This way you will know what to expect during the interviews and will not be totally shocked by the Finance questions which they ask you. Also, move to New York City and apply for internships. There are hundreds of hedge funds which will pay you a low wage to do some number crunching work. This work is really easy to get, so long as you don't need H1-B sponsorship. You can get 6 - 12 months experience and at the same time contact the headhunters and start your actual job interviews. This way also you will have industry experience plus adequate preparation for the technical job interviews and you will save the $70K MFE debt.
Both these approaches (MFE or self-study) will take care of (1) and (2).
Fortunately, you do not have to deal with point (3). For that, I would have suggested you to find a nice American girl and get married.

 

[D Serg]

I do not see other way to get in finances

Keep in mind that your chances are still low.
In reality, not so many real quants in the industry.
Of course, you may become so-called financial software engineer maybe with quant-dev title and implement basic integrals.

 

[RedPanda]

Thank you, Andy and TraderJoe.
I have done a lot of reading already (Hull, Joshi, Crack, etc). I am pretty good in answering all math and statistical questions, along with brainteasers. But not financial problems. Of course, I can solve simple problems like pricing an option or derive the Black-Scholes. I am planning to take CFA level I this summer.
The thing is I got rejected every time I apply for an internship. I am wondering what's wrong with me or my resume. Only once I was invited for an interview for entry-level software developer position at big NYC financial company. The job is very similar to the internship, they hire tens of people every year. I had a test, a phone interview, that an interview with 2 developers, then with manager, then with HR. I saw discussions about this positions on this and other forums, so I was pretty sure I would get an offer after HR interview. Nope.

 

[alain]

RedPanda,

So, you are on the older side. Questions for you:

- What is your edge?
- What can you offer to the job that a younger MFE can't offer?
- How can you translate your years of studying into working in finance?

If you don't have an edge, develop an edge. Your PhD is in mechanical engineering. What exactly? What was your PhD thesis about?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

That company does not happen to be Bloomberg, does it?
They hire loads of developers so you should apply if you haven't. Try Numerix.
Try this list we have
Quant Internship and Graduate recruitment - A Firms List

They probably think you are over-educated for an internship position.

 

[RedPanda]

That company does not happen to be Bloomberg, does it?
They hire loads of developers so you should apply if you haven't. Try Numerix.
Try this list we have
Quant Internship and Graduate recruitment - A Firms List

They probably think you are over-educated for an internship position.

Andy, you are right about the company.
Thank you. I will try to go through the list.

 

[RedPanda]

RedPanda,

So, you are on the older side. Questions for you:

- What is your edge?
- What can you offer to the job that a younger MFE can't offer?
- How can you translate your years of studying into working in finance?

If you don't have an edge, develop an edge. Your PhD is in mechanical engineering. What exactly? What was your PhD thesis about?

Thank you. I should think about my edge.

 

[RedPanda]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I am leaning toward applying to MFE program. The thing is it is going to be 2012 I can start. What are my chances to be accepted? Two years after completing my PhD. Any advise on how to maximize the odds?

 

[Ken Abbott]

RedPanda, Alain is right. You need to think about what you bring to the table. Remember you'll be competing for jobs with many people who are both younger and more experienced than you. There are many, many academics out there looking for an entre into finance. Think about what would make you marketable.