When is it too late to start a quant career?

[Timmi]

Hello All,

I'm also in a very similar situation to RedPanda, and was hoping I could get some precious advice on this forum.

Profile
- first class MEng + PhD in Aerospace Engineering from a UK redbrick university

- 3+ yrs of Work Experience in Engineering

- 31 yrs old

- strong math background (+ good working knowledge of stochastic processes and stochastic calculus acquired through self-study)

- extensive programming experience in MATLAB (currently learning how to program in C++)


What are my chances of getting onto a top tier MFE program in the US in 2012, and proceeding to forge a career as a quant? Will I be too old upon completion of my MFE (bearing in mind I won't be far off 34) Any advice would be well appreciated here.

Many thanks

 

[RedPanda]

Thank you, Ken.
I understand that it is quite hard to compete with younger people, but I do not think that academic experience does not count at all.
Any advise for me and Timmi?

 

[Ken Abbott]

@RedPanda, @Timmi: All I can do is speak to my own experience. We I see career switchers, I look for proof of genuine interest. Then I imagine where we might make use of them. Stats is a nice thing to know, but its application to finance is usually fairly specific (time series and stochastic processes in particular). I've seen academic econometricians do very well, fairly quickly, but these are people already familiar with the institutional idiosyncracies of Wall Street and the City. Beyond that, it's a hard sell. I see a lot of career switchers in the classes I teach. A lot of them think that an MFE is a ticket to a mega-career in finance. It isn't, necessarily. Think hard about whether you want to join a field as a newbie in your 30's competing with 22-year-olds with lots of energy and no commitments...

 

[Timmi]

@Ken Abbott, thanks for the advice.
My observation is that a lot of job specifications for quant roles ask for PhD's in quantitative fields, typically engineering, mathematics (including statistics) and physics. Upon graduation, the typical UK/EU PhD in one of such fields will be aged 27, and in the US this would probably be 29. So surely, it shouldn't be out of the ordinary for 30+ yr old PhD holder knocking on the door to interview for a quant position, especially if they do an MFE after their PhD.
It would be nice to hear from PhD holders in field who have gone on to become quants - whether via the MFE route or by directly securing positions as quants after completing their PhD's.

 

[RedPanda]

Thank you everyone. It still looks like it would be easier to find a job with MFE degree.

Here comes another questions. What are the chances to get into top MFE program with Engineering background?

 

[vincegata]

Andy, you are right about the company.
Thank you. I will try to go through the list.

Bloomberg asks a lot of algorithm questions, and also other computer science questions on OOP, software life-cycle, etc.

 

[RedPanda]

Bloomberg asks a lot of algorithm questions, and also other computer science questions on OOP, software life-cycle, etc.

They distinguish between CS and non-CS major.

 

[atreides]

Spend some time reading past posts on this forum and also look at detailed profiles of admitted students. I believe CMU, Baruch , UCLA and UCB publish these on their websites. The answer to your question should become apparent.

Here comes another questions. What are the chances to get into top MFE program with Engineering background?

 

[RedPanda]

Spend some time reading past posts on this forum and also look at detailed profiles of admitted students. I believe CMU, Baruch , UCLA and UCB publish these on their websites. The answer to your question should become apparent.

Thanks, I did. Yet it is not clear to me what else I can do meanwhile

 

[DominiConnor]

35 is not too old, but the clock is ticking quite loudly.

One thing that you need to be clear about, both in your presentation to potential employers and yourself is that you are going to take a serious step down in 'rank', one you may not ever go back up from.

At 35 with a PhD, I assume that you are respected practitioner of your craft. That really ain't gonna be the case when you hit a bank. You will have 20 somethings who are less smart on any scale ordering you around. You up for that ?

That leads to the next question,
Why ?

 

[RedPanda]

35 is not too old, but the clock is ticking quite loudly.

One thing that you need to be clear about, both in your presentation to potential employers and yourself is that you are going to take a serious step down in 'rank', one you may not ever go back up from.

At 35 with a PhD, I assume that you are respected practitioner of your craft. That really ain't gonna be the case when you hit a bank. You will have 20 somethings who are less smart on any scale ordering you around. You up for that ?

That leads to the next question,
Why ?

I am 31 now, and just got my PhD a year ago. Since I've missed the deadlines to apply to 2011 MFE program, then I am looking at 2012 program. In this case I will be almost 35 by the end of the program. I've seen that the average age of those taking MFE program is 28. Thus, I will be only 4 years older

 

[lhermida]

Hi everyone,

I was just made aware of this thread and accidentally posted my question in a new thread so reposting here as this is the place....

Sorry if this is maybe a stupid question, I know in a perfect world one can start a new career at any age but I would really like to query everyone in the forum what they experience in practice in their careers and companies and to receive candid responses. Is it not so uncommon to start a Masters in Computational Finance/Financial Engineering in your mid-to-late 30s?

I am 35 years old with a BEng in Chemical Engineering from a good school and have been working in academia and industry for over 10 years doing research/analysis/software development in the field of bioinformatics and computational biology. There are many parallels to computational finance/financial engineering, I use many of the same tools and approaches, e.g. statistics, linear models, genetic programming, stochastic methods, etc., requiring high-level competencies in programming and software development, C, C++, Perl, Python, R, MATLAB, etc. to analyze/acquire knowledge from large datasets of multivariate data. I have always been extremely interested in financial engineering and would like to make a career change by applying to a Masters program. Would I be too old and at a distinct disadvantage to start such a career in the industry after finishing?

thank you,
Leandro

 

[lhermida]

Hi again everyone,

Just parsed through the entire thread's responses want to add another couple questions to my post.

From the responses everyone has written it seems like quant positions are very few and very specific, but in the field of financial engineering and with masters training aren't there many different types of roles one can go into? For example, some more on the software/systems development side, some more on the mathematical/algorithm side, etc?

Another question I have about what an older candidate could bring to the table.... would employers and recruiters value from a mid 30s year old candidate a proven track record of accomplishments implementing large complex projects and managing teams in their previous field? This is something the younger candidates might not have...

 

[RedPanda]

BTW, I managed to get in one of the top FE schools.
Now comes the most interesting part :P.

 

[jack-win]

Hi,

I have similar situation and really wonder how interviews are given.
I have phd in physics from top 10 US institutioin,and 5 years post doc experience, and have been working as professor for 2 years in south america
Before 2008 I was often contacted by recruiters, now never.

Only time I got an interview and then also a job offer from IB was when i lived in japan,(and was 5 years young .) and my CV was "proposed" by a friend who worked there as an intern . At the time I has some family problem so I had to go back to my home country and never joined. \\

Not much technical questions I have to say.
I m starting to think is all about networking or be physically present in the area where they r hiring.
As a physicist I am used to learn quickly new stuff, and believe me physics problems are much more difficult than financial math, but still I see a weak awareness of this abilities in recruiters who still look for very technical ppl in my opinion, missing the extra problem solving/learning skill a scientist has.
Renaissance technologies is an exception but even them I think rely heavily on networking, and coming from the same school.

Am I right?

Thanks Jack

 

[Ian Kaplan]

I don't think that the 30s is too old. Go read Emanuel Derman's "My Life as a Quant". Derman had a stellar career.

I'm older than my 30s and I'm in the University of Washington Computational Finance master's program. Admittedly I plan to work in software, perhaps at a fund. As far as I'm concerned, what happened at Knight Capital is a good thing for me: this should provide a stark example of how important seasoned software skills are.

One thing that I feel strongly is that if you want to do something, do it. There will be lots and lots of people telling you why you can't do it and why you will fail. Don't listen to them. Set you sights on what you want to achieve and go for it.

At the start of all things is a dream. We don't know if we will realize our dreams, but if we don't try then we have stagnated. So yeah, you may be competing with 20 year olds, but you have some advantages they don't. If you want to do it, go for it.

I've written elsewhere on this site about the University of Washington program. It is more reasonably priced than a lot of programs and it may be easier to get into than a program at, say, NYU or CMU. There are people from all over the world in the program and, as I am doing, you can take classes as a working professional (e.g., you don't have to give up your day job, you just have to give up any life outside of work and school).

If you are really interested in finance and would love working in this area, go for it. Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't do it or that you're too old.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I'm older than my 30s and I'm in the University of Washington Computational Finance master's program.

You remind me of a post I read during my road trip last month and meant to post on QuantNet.
NYT has an article describing the computer science dept at University of Washington as the best you never heard of. Maybe you should go and network with those folks on the CS dept.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/t...ipeline-to-silicon-valley.html?pagewanted=all